Vince Young's magic merely a memory

[Jones31]

It's sad watching Vince Young play football these days. There's no other way to describe it.

The sensational playmaker we saw deliver a national championship to Texas no longer exists. When Young played at UT, you never missed a play because you never knew when he would deliver the spectacular.

All we knew is that it would occur – and if you didn't miss a play, you didn't have to rely on descriptions from friends and other writers that simply wouldn't do it justice.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/nfl/stories/082409dnspotaylorcol.33da293.html

[Sect309Fan]

He definitely isn't the playmaker he was in college, or even in his rookie year in the NFL.

One thing that has been bothering me about him in the preseason is that he throws to a spot a lot more than throwing to a receiver. Throwing to a spot is good at times, but there seems too many times he just throws it there whether a receiver will be there or not. And from his comments, he sounds like he doesn't really care if the receiver was supposed to be there or not.

I look at Collins, and he sees the receiver before he throws it almost every time. Having the QB make the right throw just isn't enough. You have to make sure that a receiver is going to have a chance at catching it or not.

Friday was a step backwards for Vince. With only two games left, he is running out of time to make a case for himself to be a starter again.

[JimOkc]

Dunno.

Kind of hard to be magical when you aren't playing and pretty much haven't since 07.

[Count Telecky]

I was listening to Frankie on 104.5 this morning and he made a comment that it's almost like Vince has forgotten how to run. In his rookie year, he would run and make people miss and turn nothing into something but now it's almost like he's lost his confidence in that ability. Frank did back that up by saying that it may also have to do with defenses knowing how to contain him better now.

I kind of agree. It's almost like he was so intent on proving to everybody that he could be that pocket passing QB and not have to run so much, that he has a mental block. So know he hesitates and over thinks whereas before it was all instinct.

[Parddy]

Friday was a step backwards for Vince. With only two games left, he is running out of time to make a case for himself to be a starter again.


You have GOT to be kidding? He has absolutely 0% chance of becoming a starter. Unless Collins gets hurt in these last two games, then he has a 50% chance...IMO

[Sect309Fan]

You have GOT to be kidding? He has absolutely 0% chance of becoming a starter. Unless Collins gets hurt in these last two games, then he has a 50% chance...IMO

I am talking about next year. Because that is the only way he makes the team.

Collins is definitely the starter this season.

[Yvette]

I am talking about next year. Because that is the only way he makes the team.
Did Bud tell you that? :lol

[Parddy]

I am talking about next year.


Thank goodness, I thought you had lost your mind there 309... :doh

[tyrant28]

i am torn on this one! i love vince as a person, he seems like a very good guy! i have been following him since texas, its so hard! i want him to do well, i want to pull for him, but everytime i do, it just seems to me like he takes a step back in some way! its hard to explain!

[SwissTitansFan]

http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/frankly_my_dear.jpg

Frankly, my dear,.......I don't give a rat's ass, what the "Dallas News" is writing 'bout my TITANS....

[RohitTheNair]

Not even threadworthy.

[Jones31]

Time to call bullshyte on you there kid.

[RohitTheNair]

It's just another biased article that says he is a failure....We have seen trillions of these.

[Orca]

Article seems a little premature to Orca, but maybe it is prescient. This season likely will tell all.

[Jones31]

It's just another biased article that says he is a failure....We have seen trillions of these.

Just like your statements saying otherwise.....


Like it or not that's part of the game.

[SwissTitansFan]

Time to call bullshyte on you there kid.

http://patcheswholesale.com/images/RedBull****.jpg

[Jones31]

I love that saying..

[Yvette]

I love that saying..
You have it down to a fine art

:laugh

:p

[Jones31]

Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NYTitan21]

You have GOT to be kidding? He has absolutely 0% chance of becoming a starter. Unless Collins gets hurt in these last two games, then he has a 50% chance...IMO

i heard some guys on Sirius NFL radio today saying that if the Titans have a close game where its not a blowout either way, that they believed Patrick Ramsey would be put in the game instead of VY and they claimed that Fisher doesn't have the confidence to put VY in and i honestly can say i believe that is the truth. in a blowout game VY gets time to play and learn/progress more.

[Titans and Turtles]

It's almost like he was so intent on proving to everybody that he could be that pocket passing QB and not have to run so much, that he has a mental block. So know he hesitates and over thinks whereas before it was all instinct.

THIS.

But I go further. Let me put on my tin foil hat. You will never, ever, EVAR convince me this didn't get into Vince's head because Chow and Fish put it there. I still visualize the entire 2007 pre-season, Vince chained to a chair, toothpicks propping his eyes open, making him watch random images on a movie screen, electrodes strapped to him -

Picture of something Throwing - Pleasant music, followed by happy pictures.

Picture of something Running - electric shock, sounds of dogs trapped at the pound, pictures of cute baby animals being eaten by wolves, a machine slapping vince accross the face with a rubber glove, the pre-recorded voice of Jeff Fisher shouting "NO NO NO NO" blaring.

Yes, later that year, and often since, Fisher would report in his pressers that he was encouraging Vince to run more. But I am convinced it was only after he and Chow so thoroughly implanted the idea "Throw is good, run is bad" into VY's head, it was too late to revert.

[Old Oilers Fan]

THIS.

But I go further. Let me put on my tin foil hat. You will never, ever, EVAR convince me this didn't get into Vince's head because Chow and Fish put it there. I still visualize the entire 2007 pre-season, Vince chained to a chair, toothpicks propping his eyes open, making him watch random images on a movie screen, electrodes strapped to him -

Picture of something Throwing - Pleasant music, followed by happy pictures.

Picture of something Running - electric shock, sounds of dogs trapped at the pound, pictures of cute baby animals being eaten by wolves, a machine slapping vince accross the face with a rubber glove, the pre-recorded voice of Jeff Fisher shouting "NO NO NO NO" blaring.

Yes, later that year, and often since, Fisher would report in his pressers that he was encouraging Vince to run more. But I am convinced it was only after he and Chow so thoroughly implanted the idea "Throw is good, run is bad" into VY's head, it was too late to revert.

:crazy

[Orca]

THIS.

But I go further. Let me put on my tin foil hat. You will never, ever, EVAR convince me this didn't get into Vince's head because Chow and Fish put it there. I still visualize the entire 2007 pre-season, Vince chained to a chair, toothpicks propping his eyes open, making him watch random images on a movie screen, electrodes strapped to him -

Picture of something Throwing - Pleasant music, followed by happy pictures.

Picture of something Running - electric shock, sounds of dogs trapped at the pound, pictures of cute baby animals being eaten by wolves, a machine slapping vince accross the face with a rubber glove, the pre-recorded voice of Jeff Fisher shouting "NO NO NO NO" blaring.

Yes, later that year, and often since, Fisher would report in his pressers that he was encouraging Vince to run more. But I am convinced it was only after he and Chow so thoroughly implanted the idea "Throw is good, run is bad" into VY's head, it was too late to revert.

That's it, a conspiracy to fail!

[Toronto]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/nfl/stories/082409dnspotaylorcol.33da293.html

Man is that a good read.

[InVinceWeTrust]

Piling on is so easy..... Was I impressed with anything Vince did Friday. No. Period. End of sentance. Was I impressed with anything anyone in a Titan's uniform not named Javon Ringer did in that game. No. Period. End of sentance. Shall we pronounce them all failed and ready for the trash heap?

The Cowboys dominated in every phase of the game vs the Titans. The Cowboys looked like a steaming pile of !%!!% against the Raiders the week before.

It's pre-season. One game stuff works ..a la Vince v Tampa Bay. Friday, balls were short, WRs stopped on routes, blocks were missed on blitzers, balls were in "the area" but I can't tell you if the ball was in the right place and the WR not, or vice versa. I just know the Titans, as a group, had a crappy night. Lucky for me I was rooting for my 'Boys and enjoying the new football palace, cause it I'd been depending on the Titans to entertain me on the eve of my B'Day, I'd would have been one sad eyed puppy. LOL

[Jones31]

ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Nice to have a double interest in the game and take the winning side.

See ya "girls fan

[pookha]

He definitely isn't the playmaker he was in college, or even in his rookie year in the NFL.

One thing that has been bothering me about him in the preseason is that he throws to a spot a lot more than throwing to a receiver. Throwing to a spot is good at times, but there seems too many times he just throws it there whether a receiver will be there or not. And from his comments, he sounds like he doesn't really care if the receiver was supposed to be there or not.

I look at Collins, and he sees the receiver before he throws it almost every time. Having the QB make the right throw just isn't enough. You have to make sure that a receiver is going to have a chance at catching it or not.

.


this where vision of the whole field comes in.
going through to see if the wr if they run their route has a realistic chance of making it on time.


as for not having a chance to play.

shrug...

a lot of players go through acl's including qb's.

mac in 99 missed a good part of the season due to back surgery.

bob griese broke his leg during the dolphins unbeaten season but came back during the playoffs.

vince partly is having to deal with the realization that his legs may be betraying him.

both due to physical limitations and partly due to how he started to be defensed in 07 he is coming to the realisation that certain things just are not going to work any more.
even of the coaches game plan for them.

i havent said a lot about it till over the weekend but i saw his body language just shift last monday after that twinge in his leg hit.

he is going to have to decide to whether he is going to dig in and be willing to learn and adapt.

he cant just depend on his former fantastic physical skills but rather further develop his knowledge of the game.

[hooktool]

Piling on is so easy..... Was I impressed with anything Vince did Friday. No. Period. End of sentance. Was I impressed with anything anyone in a Titan's uniform not named Javon Ringer did in that game. No. Period. End of sentance. Shall we pronounce them all failed and ready for the trash heap?

The Cowboys dominated in every phase of the game vs the Titans. The Cowboys looked like a steaming pile of !%!!% against the Raiders the week before.

It's pre-season. One game stuff works ..a la Vince v Tampa Bay. Friday, balls were short, WRs stopped on routes, blocks were missed on blitzers, balls were in "the area" but I can't tell you if the ball was in the right place and the WR not, or vice versa. I just know the Titans, as a group, had a crappy night. Lucky for me I was rooting for my 'Boys and enjoying the new football palace, cause it I'd been depending on the Titans to entertain me on the eve of my B'Day, I'd would have been one sad eyed puppy. LOL


They've got a new place to play? I didn't notice that.

John

[Livid13]

FIN

[TitansGiantsBears]

this where vision of the whole field comes in.
going through to see if the wr if they run their route has a realistic chance of making it on time.


Years ago, (more than I want to admit now) I remember a piece on Bill Walsh on one of the pregames where he was talking about all the QB's he'd coached, etc, and he said somethign that has stuck with me all these years when I evaluate QB's - you can usually tell how much of the field a QB sees by looking at his yards per attempt. Through the years I've seen that hold true. The top QB's play in the 7.5 or higher. They're seeing the complete field. QB's who complete under 7 yards per attempt tend to dump off primarily to TE's and RB's.

This is what drives me insane about Vince's play. In the win against Tampa, he had a stout 9.4, in the two other games a 3.9 against Buffalo and a 3.8 against Dallas. The most damning fault Vince has is a lack of consistency.

Overall this preseason his numbers have been terrible- 17 of 33 for 203 yards a TD and 2 picks and that is WITH the great game against Tampa Bay thrown in. That works out to a 42.4 QB rating in the preseason against mainly vanilla defenses. No one is game-planning for the backup QB with their backups. This should be like college to Vince. He should be the best player on the field, playing against mostly scrubs. But he isn't getting it done.

I'm not sure what the answer is. Obviously sitting him on the bench hasn't helped him like it does with some players. Competition from Ramsey hasn't helped either. It seems to have made him worse. Whatever the answer is, I'd be happy at this point for him to just find his rookie form again.

[Sect309Fan]

Years ago, (more than I want to admit now) I remember a piece on Bill Walsh on one of the pregames where he was talking about all the QB's he'd coached, etc, and he said somethign that has stuck with me all these years when I evaluate QB's - you can usually tell how much of the field a QB sees by looking at his yards per attempt. Through the years I've seen that hold true. The top QB's play in the 7.5 or higher. They're seeing the complete field. QB's who complete under 7 yards per attempt tend to dump off primarily to TE's and RB's.

Unfortunately, Collins falls into the same category. He has a career 6.6 yards per attempt, and he was 6.4 ypa last season, worse than Vince's 6.7 ypa in 2007.

Ramsey has a career 6.5 ypa.

[BJShan]

THIS.

But I go further. Let me put on my tin foil hat. You will never, ever, EVAR convince me this didn't get into Vince's head because Chow and Fish put it there. I still visualize the entire 2007 pre-season, Vince chained to a chair, toothpicks propping his eyes open, making him watch random images on a movie screen, electrodes strapped to him -

Picture of something Throwing - Pleasant music, followed by happy pictures.

Picture of something Running - electric shock, sounds of dogs trapped at the pound, pictures of cute baby animals being eaten by wolves, a machine slapping vince accross the face with a rubber glove, the pre-recorded voice of Jeff Fisher shouting "NO NO NO NO" blaring.

Yes, later that year, and often since, Fisher would report in his pressers that he was encouraging Vince to run more. But I am convinced it was only after he and Chow so thoroughly implanted the idea "Throw is good, run is bad" into VY's head, it was too late to revert.

You're absolutely right.

Fisher has always had a pure pocket passer. I mean just look at the list of Titans quarterbacks:

1. Steve McN.... wait, what?

[Pastorini]

If you play in high percentage west coast offense sometimes your ypa will be a bit deceiving. Kerry usually had a pretty high YPC (yards per completion) before becoming a Titan. He was often at 12 yards or above in YPC I think. I know he was among the league leaders in long passes several times in his career.

[gnarl]

that's thing I've been noticing about young lately. he was known is college for his athletism but everyday u see him pull down and run...he starts limping afterwards. and that's what would make him a good football player if he was a double threat...as much as I love VY and wish he would go back to college form..if he is trying to become a pocket passer..time we just move on.

unless he can some one stay healthy and start making defenses worry about his arm and his legs...he's nothing special to be honest.

I've never given up on VY and always had faith he'd come around...but im becoming worried.

[Titans and Turtles]

You're absolutely right.

Fisher has always had a pure pocket passer. I mean just look at the list of Titans quarterbacks:

1. Steve McN.... wait, what?

Steve "Air" McNair proves my point perfectly. He was exactly who Fisher was trying to turn Vince into.

McNair was a pocket quarterback who scrambled when the play broke down and no one was open and he did his progressions, looked at his checkdowns, and then, and ONLY THEN, did he finally decide to take off and run. Fisher likes a quarterback who scrambles when absolutely every chance to throw has been looked at, and taken off the table.

The good VY, the one that knew how to win, Ran. Not after every progression was checked, not after looking off the checkdown guy. But as a design. Not as a reaction to a broken play with the pocket containment worn down, but by design, on purpose. Do you remember the national championship game, thet touchdown VY ran to the corner of the endzone late in the game? That was not a pass play gone wrong. Vince didn't look down progressions, check his checkdowns, and then finally decide to run. The play was VY to corner endzone. Period.

So yes, "Running is bad" is a little simplistic. But run only after you've made every available check to see if you can throw, and then check again, and then and only then, run, is more realistic.

Vince Young will not thrive in any environment where he does not feel completely at will to take off and run on any given play, and god forbid, actually call a play where he runs by design every now and then.

You bring up McNair to counter me, but I say McNair is exactly who Fisher wanted VY to become. And VY and McNair are not, nor will ever be, the same type of QB. McNair was a pocket passer who can scramble. VY is a running QB who throws every now and then. By trying to "Fix" VY, Fisher and Chow broke him. I'll never believe otherwise.

[Zephyr]

THIS.

But I go further. Let me put on my tin foil hat. You will never, ever, EVAR convince me this didn't get into Vince's head because Chow and Fish put it there. I still visualize the entire 2007 pre-season, Vince chained to a chair, toothpicks propping his eyes open, making him watch random images on a movie screen, electrodes strapped to him -

Picture of something Throwing - Pleasant music, followed by happy pictures.

Picture of something Running - electric shock, sounds of dogs trapped at the pound, pictures of cute baby animals being eaten by wolves, a machine slapping vince accross the face with a rubber glove, the pre-recorded voice of Jeff Fisher shouting "NO NO NO NO" blaring.

Yes, later that year, and often since, Fisher would report in his pressers that he was encouraging Vince to run more. But I am convinced it was only after he and Chow so thoroughly implanted the idea "Throw is good, run is bad" into VY's head, it was too late to revert.


He wasn't running less, he was a less effective runner
He was making bad decisions on when to run and when not to run

Defenses caught up, the only real difference came in the 20 + yard runs
in 06 he had 6 runs of 20+, in 07 he had 2

he played in about 5 less quarters in 06

06 - 83 for 552 6.7
07 - 93 for 394 4.2

When he learns to read a defense and deliver an accurate pass down field his running lanes will re-appear

[Livid13]

I'm curious, what part of "never going to happen" do you guys/gals not understand. He's a head case and it ain't the NCAA. He was a BRILLIANT college player, but to make comparisions of what he accomplished at Texas, versus what he MIGHT do in the NFL is absurd. I'm sorry, but you bought yourself a lemon. Put him in a variation of a "Wildcat package", or use him the way the Steelers used Kordell Stewart. He is not, nor will he EVER be a starter in the NFL, barring injury.

[Titanico]

Many of us really believe in what our eyes are telling us. If that helps.

Through the "Vince Young" threads anybody can see who is watching the real side, and who isn't.

[Yvette]

And some of us are just hopeful :)

[Orca]

"The miserable have no other medicine but only hope."
--Shakespeare

[TitansFan23]

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em."
--Kenny Rogers

[Sect309Fan]

"Know when to run" :D

[Parddy]

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em."
--Kenny Rogers


"Know when to pass the ball, know when to run"

Kenny Rogers :p

[TitansFan23]

"You never listen to your iPod, when you're sittin on the sidelines, there'll be time of nuff for that stuff, when the game is done".

[Yvette]

"The miserable have no other medicine but only hope."
--Shakespeare
"No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars or sailed to an uncharted land or opened a new heaven to the human spirit."

-- Helen Keller

[TitansGiantsBears]

Unfortunately, Collins falls into the same category. He has a career 6.6 yards per attempt, and he was 6.4 ypa last season, worse than Vince's 6.7 ypa in 2007.

Ramsey has a career 6.5 ypa.

You are right unfortunately. Even in a west coast offense (as someone else mentioned) guys like Montana and Young put up solid 7.5 -8 and sometimes even higher.

[Hookem Horns]

Because I am a Longhorn fan I also frequent some Longhorns boards. There are always some threads about VY and of course many what I call 2006 diehard Titans "fans". Here are some funny things they are saying today. Actually some are now accepting reality however the quotes below are from some that haven't.


Screw the Titans!


I'm not conVinced! Fisher made him ride the pine for a year.
He doesn't have game speed because he hasn't played 16 games!!!!!


Think about this factoid. USC and Michigan defenders are almost NFL players. So watch the Rose Bowls 1 and 2. He Smoked their asses. So what's the problem? Don't the Titans get it?


Give superman back his cape and he will fly for you .


I bet the NFL LBs his rookie year were just as fast and strong as they are in '09. The Colts Defense was wowwed by Rookie Vince.


Vince seems afraid to take off. He seems brainwashed.


VY won a National Championship for, and at, Texas. Then he got paid, and with a little care, is now set for life. Screw the Titans and the NFL.


I don't know if it'll happen for Vince anywhere else, but I'm 100% convinced it won't be happening for Vince in Tennessee. I really wish they'd cut him. Now.


Part of the secret of a successful marriage is in knowing when a therapeutic divorce is called for. Vince's situation in Nashville is screaming for him and the Titans to part ways. It's not a slam dunk that he does a lot better somewhere else, but for sure, Vince being a Titan is NOT a marriage made in Heaven.


In the last game, Collins had no time to throw anything beyond a simple slant and the team gained about 80 yards of offense in the first half. The game before Vince played okay while Collins looked awful. The offense is a bunch of RBs with not much to say for the OL or WRs.


Vince needs to hook up with a team that will allow him to succeed based on his abilities.


VY will be fine, he got paid, 1/2 of his contract was guaranteed and he is into the 4th year of a 5 year contract. hes got at least 25 million in the bank. he can move back to austin and never have to pay for a meal the rest of his life should he choose to do so.

[Zephyr]

^ are you sure you didn't get those from the TOMB

[TitansFan23]

http://www.kleenex.com/NA/Default.aspx

[Jones31]

He likely had them cached for a rainy day. :lolhit

[Titanico]

Screw VY!!

Oh... that was harsh!!! :laugh

[Orca]

Orca is amazed at the vituperation directed toward VY by former acolytes on this board. A little consistency, or at least silence, would be more appropriate, especially given that we remain early in the preseason....

[Sect309Fan]

On Titans Central a while back, someone asked whether any of us fans feel sorry for Vince. I really thought it was an interesting question, and I had to really think about it for a while.

I really can't say I do feel sorry for him. From my observations, the Titans coaches have treated him fairly, and have really gone out of their way to help him. The only blame you could put on them and the front office is taking so long to get some really good receivers, but they had to get the defense strong first to compete.

Vince has made his bed, and now he has to lie in it. He has two games left to convince someone that he is worthy of being a starter, but I think it is too late. He has had three chances, and only one of them have made him look good. And his comments this whole offseason certainly haven't helped. I thought I would be happy that he is talking to the media again, but he sounds delusional half the time. :crazy

I would love to know what Fisher and Dinger really think about Vince. They won't say anything negative while he is on the team, but we might get some honesty after that.

[Orca]

You really think FISHER would admit a mistake?

[Titanico]

Fisher is known to be one of Capt. Obvious arch-rivals...

[Jones31]

You really think FISHER would admit a mistake?

Oh it goes deeper than that I think.

[Orca]

Rephrased --

Do you really think BUD would admit a mistake?

:lmao

[TTP77]

On Titans Central a while back, someone asked whether any of us fans feel sorry for Vince. I really thought it was an interesting question, and I had to really think about it for a while.

I really can't say I do feel sorry for him. From my observations, the Titans coaches have treated him fairly, and have really gone out of their way to help him. The only blame you could put on them and the front office is taking so long to get some really good receivers, but they had to get the defense strong first to compete.

Vince has made his bed, and now he has to lie in it. He has two games left to convince someone that he is worthy of being a starter, but I think it is too late. He has had three chances, and only one of them have made him look good. And his comments this whole offseason certainly haven't helped. I thought I would be happy that he is talking to the media again, but he sounds delusional half the time. :crazy

I would love to know what Fisher and Dinger really think about Vince. They won't say anything negative while he is on the team, but we might get some honesty after that.

I didn't make it to camp today and it does sorta sound like Vince had a rough day, but from what I actually saw this year he was having a better camp than last year. I was always puzzled last year when I read camp reviews on Vince b/c it just seemed like they didn't coincide with my observations. I agree with Orca, or one of his other personalities LMAO! that it is still wayyy too early to judge Vince.

Also, I think you have to separate out Dinger from Fisher b/c I don't think they have the same thoughts about Vince. Similar ok maybe but not the same. I am totally speculating here and well I'm probably totally off base but I just think Fisher feels a sense of responsibility about Vince that Dinger doesn't feel. of course a lotta people like to think you have have a crystal ball and look into the future and predict what's going to happen. Or, that you can look at someone in the present and see what they are going to become. Because you can't.

Dinger I think just thinks Vince still has room to improve and that Kerry is still the best option and maybe....just maybe he thinks WOW I wish Vince had been here my first offseason instead of going back to Texas. And that Vince had maybe put a little bit more time and effort last year into learning the playbook and being more of a student of the game. But maybe also he thinks it's not too late for Vince...close but maybe not quite.

But, I do think Fisher feels a sense of responsibility about Vince that he probably shouldn't because he didn't see what was going to come with what all went down last year. Which I'm not getting into because it's all just water under the bridge. Except that it set Vince back in a sense even though the team moved along and even forward. I also think Coach had no choice last year. But I also think Fisher deep down now thinks it was a mistake to start Vince so early in his career and I don't think it was him but Bud but I also don't think Fisher objected all that strenuously b/c the team needed a spark. But we now know Vince was NOT as mature as we all thought or at the least something happened that impacted him. Because he was not the same guy in 2007 and what little we saw in 2008.

But also I don't think anyone foresaw what would come of that decision and the price Vince, and yea the team, would ultimately pay because you just couldn't foresee the meltdown. Maybe that's too strong a word but something clearly happened and it's insane to deny it now. Also, it serves no purpose. So, here we are and it is what it is and we can just hope Vince continues to show progress. Yo people, he IS saying progress even if it's small steps so I don' think anyone, particularly Vince, should give up now because there's no reason too IMO. Vince is going to be on the team for one more year and there's no way to predict the outcome at this particular juncture. Time enough to evaluate that this coming offseason.

Oh, and if anyone thinks Patrick Ramsey is better than Vince then you're crazy. :crazy No offense intended. :thumbsup :p

And that's my two cents.

[pookha]

Steve "Air" McNair proves my point perfectly. He was exactly who Fisher was trying to turn Vince into.

McNair was a pocket quarterback who scrambled when the play broke down and no one was open and he did his progressions, looked at his checkdowns, and then, and ONLY THEN, did he finally decide to take off and run. Fisher likes a quarterback who scrambles when absolutely every chance to throw has been looked at, and taken off the table.

The good VY, the one that knew how to win, Ran. Not after every progression was checked, not after looking off the checkdown guy. But as a design. Not as a reaction to a broken play with the pocket containment worn down, but by design, on purpose. Do you remember the national championship game, thet touchdown VY ran to the corner of the endzone late in the game? That was not a pass play gone wrong. Vince didn't look down progressions, check his checkdowns, and then finally decide to run. The play was VY to corner endzone. Period.

So yes, "Running is bad" is a little simplistic. But run only after you've made every available check to see if you can throw, and then check again, and then and only then, run, is more realistic.

Vince Young will not thrive in any environment where he does not feel completely at will to take off and run on any given play, and god forbid, actually call a play where he runs by design every now and then.

You bring up McNair to counter me, but I say McNair is exactly who Fisher wanted VY to become. And VY and McNair are not, nor will ever be, the same type of QB. McNair was a pocket passer who can scramble. VY is a running QB who throws every now and then. By trying to "Fix" VY, Fisher and Chow broke him. I'll never believe otherwise.

uh we must have been watching different games.

many of steve's runs were called by design.
either by a play the coaches called in or one he went too.

and fisher has said repeatedly that they had plays in place for vince to run.
but he didnt use them.

frankly as vince started to suffer injuries to his legs and, he realised he was dealing with a lot more sophisticated defensives then he had ever gone against in college things started to change.

it might have started as early as the game in his rookie season against new england.
it very much got worse when he was injured early on in the 07 season.

add in bad personal stuff like dealing with his father something big shifted.

i have noticed as soon as he gets any kind of tweak from a leg his demeanor changes.

in his mind he is dependent on his legs but he no longer trusts them.

[Livid13]

On Titans Central a while back, someone asked whether any of us fans feel sorry for Vince. I really thought it was an interesting question, and I had to really think about it for a while.

I really can't say I do feel sorry for him. From my observations, the Titans coaches have treated him fairly, and have really gone out of their way to help him. The only blame you could put on them and the front office is taking so long to get some really good receivers, but they had to get the defense strong first to compete.

Vince has made his bed, and now he has to lie in it. He has two games left to convince someone that he is worthy of being a starter, but I think it is too late. He has had three chances, and only one of them have made him look good. And his comments this whole offseason certainly haven't helped. I thought I would be happy that he is talking to the media again, but he sounds delusional half the time. :crazy

I would love to know what Fisher and Dinger really think about Vince. They won't say anything negative while he is on the team, but we might get some honesty after that.

REALLY ? VY has TWO games to prove that he can start in the NFL,...hardly ! This guy needs the instruction of a bonafide QB's coach, similar to Gary Kubiak. He also needs to improve DRASTICALLY on his work ethic. As posted before, by others, he doesn't spend much time watching film. Remember his Wonderlic score (6 out of a possible 50) You need some gray matter to read NFL defenses . He is NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer. I'm not being a hater, just being realistic.....wasted pick.

[titansikou]

Let's see. I'm on hold and listening to repetitive muzak while I surf the Titans boards. Which one is more interesting, the muzak or the 'debate' about vince young? Serious! This is a tough choice.

[Hookem Horns]

I'm not being a hater, just being realistic.....wasted pick.

I don't know. We know why Bud forced his people to draft Vince and it actually worked for a season. People in Texas were turning on the Texans and Titans "fans" started popping up all over the state. Plus during that first season VY got to score the winning TD in OT in Houston, pumping his chest with all the "this is my house" crap only adding more fuel to that fire (Think about it, Reliant is the "house" Bud wanted in the first place, so he had to get some major jollies out of that).

Maybe to Bud that pick was worth it for the gratification he got during the 2006 season.

Of course now reality is settling in and majority of those 2006 Titans "fans" are back to rooting for the Cowboys and even some the Texans. However, just maybe it was still worth all of that chaos it caused in Texas for that one season, actually 2 seasons I would say.

IMO, the fun and games for Bud is over. Bud needs to go ahead and get back to running a football team, allowing his football people to make the decisions. Cut Vince loose and let him go somewhere else for a new start.

If it doesn't pan out for him there, then so be it. He was rewarded handsomely for being Bud's play thing and shouldn't have to worry about money for the rest of his life (as long as he doesn't pull a MC Hammer).

If he ever does run out of money he will always be worshipped in Austin and would have no problem making money off of all of his subjects here. However, if Texas wins a NC under Colt McCoy, Colt might steal some of VY's godship.

Oh, and if that happens I think I know who the Titans will be targeting in next years draft. OMG, that is a horrible thought. Colt a Titan.

[hooktool]

Let's see. I'm on hold and listening to repetitive muzak while I surf the Titans boards. Which one is more interesting, the muzak or the 'debate' about vince young? Serious! This is a tough choice.

I don't know, is it like Metallica, or maybe some Led Zep musak? I love me some Stairway to Heaven done with 40 violins. :)

John

[RohitTheNair]

I don't know. We know why Bud forced his people to draft Vince and it actually worked for a season. People in Texas were turning on the Texans and Titans "fans" started popping up all over the state. Plus during that first season VY got to score the winning TD in OT in Houston, pumping his chest with all the "this is my house" crap only adding more fuel to that fire (Think about it, Reliant is the "house" Bud wanted in the first place, so he had to get some major jollies out of that).

Maybe to Bud that pick was worth it for the gratification he got during the 2006 season.

Of course now reality is settling in and majority of those 2006 Titans "fans" are back to rooting for the Cowboys and even some the Texans. However, just maybe it was still worth all of that chaos it caused in Texas for that one season, actually 2 seasons I would say.

IMO, the fun and games for Bud is over. Bud needs to go ahead and get back to running a football team, allowing his football people to make the decisions. Cut Vince loose and let him go somewhere else for a new start.

If it doesn't pan out for him there, then so be it. He was rewarded handsomely for being Bud's play thing and shouldn't have to worry about money for the rest of his life (as long as he doesn't pull a MC Hammer).

If he ever does run out of money he will always be worshipped in Austin and would have no problem making money off of all of his subjects here. However, if Texas wins a NC under Colt McCoy, Colt might steal some of VY's godship.

Oh, and if that happens I think I know who the Titans will be targeting in next years draft. OMG, that is a horrible thought. Colt a Titan.

Eeeeeewwwwwwww:puke:crazy

[Yvette]

Guess this means I should pay attention to Colt McCoy this year? lol

[Parddy]

The Titans coaches are taking a lot of heat in regards to VY by his supporters. I'm thinking when Mack Brown said "We stopped coaching him and just let him play" maybe we should have seen an NFL red flag right there and then. That tactic may work on Saturday, but not on Sunday.

[Maximus]

At this point, I'm nervous of just about any college QB who played in a shotgun spread offense.

[pookha]

Guess this means I should pay attention to Colt McCoy this year? lol

:ohmy

[titansikou]

I don't know, is it like Metallica, or maybe some Led Zep musak? I love me some Stairway to Heaven done with 40 violins. :)

John

Unfortunately, it was an unidentifiable 3-bar 'tune' that played over and over again. They closed before they answered :cry.

Certainly, Young's professional trajectory has been unconventional, but I'm not yet convinced of his greatness or his failure. From my p.o.v. to say otherwise is an extreme.

I will admit that I want him to succeed for a bunch of reasons, not least because I don't really want to find another seasoned vet to bring along another young uncertain at a point where I feel the titans could be a force to be reckoned with for years to come. The QB position is the weakest on this team IMHO, especially now that the WR position seems to be shoring up. Whatever you think of Collins he's not got much football left in him, so if you don't want/like Young then I wonder what you see on the horizon that I don't.

[Livid13]

I don't know. We know why Bud forced his people to draft Vince and it actually worked for a season. People in Texas were turning on the Texans and Titans "fans" started popping up all over the state. Plus during that first season VY got to score the winning TD in OT in Houston, pumping his chest with all the "this is my house" crap only adding more fuel to that fire (Think about it, Reliant is the "house" Bud wanted in the first place, so he had to get some major jollies out of that).

Maybe to Bud that pick was worth it for the gratification he got during the 2006 season.

Of course now reality is settling in and majority of those 2006 Titans "fans" are back to rooting for the Cowboys and even some the Texans. However, just maybe it was still worth all of that chaos it caused in Texas for that one season, actually 2 seasons I would say.

IMO, the fun and games for Bud is over. Bud needs to go ahead and get back to running a football team, allowing his football people to make the decisions. Cut Vince loose and let him go somewhere else for a new start.

If it doesn't pan out for him there, then so be it. He was rewarded handsomely for being Bud's play thing and shouldn't have to worry about money for the rest of his life (as long as he doesn't pull a MC Hammer).

If he ever does run out of money he will always be worshipped in Austin and would have no problem making money off of all of his subjects here. However, if Texas wins a NC under Colt McCoy, Colt might steal some of VY's godship.

Oh, and if that happens I think I know who the Titans will be targeting in next years draft. OMG, that is a horrible thought. Colt a Titan.

Hook,very insightful post....

[Hookem Horns]

The Titans coaches are taking a lot of heat in regards to VY by his supporters. I'm thinking when Mack Brown said "We stopped coaching him and just let him play" maybe we should have seen an NFL red flag right there and then. That tactic may work on Saturday, but not on Sunday.

Good point. Most of VY's supporters keep saying that Fisher and company need to do the same. Like you said, Saturdays and Sundays are 2 different animals.

Though I will admit it sorta worked in Philly during Randall Cunningham's time there. Buddy Ryan basically made a similar comment that Mack Brown made. When Buddy got fired and the new regime tried to coach Cunningham into being a pocket passer he flopped.

However, when Cunningham was playing sandlot football (as the Philly media was calling it) with Buddy Ryan it was entertaining however wasn't going to get them far in the playoffs even with having one of the best defenses ever.

[Jones31]

I'm sure we all remember Bongo....

http://www.titanscentral.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1666&st=0

[Titanico]

I see that he stills like to stir the pot. :laugh

[Parddy]

Rumors and hearsay at this point.

[Mike McFan]

I see that he stills like to stir the pot. :laugh

Looks like he may enjoy smoking it as well !
That one's out there.
Even for him !:lol

[Parddy]

I was never fond of Bongo airing the Titans dirty laundry at the TOMB, I am still not fond of it today. Not that any of that matters because he certainly seems to enjoy it.
What happens in a locker room should stay there...IMO

[don28]

If it was true, I am sure an "unnamed team source" would have leaked it to one of the local network affiliates for a nice stipend.

[Yvette]

That is one freaky dude!

[pookha]

i thought the offense and defense didnt watch film together.

[TitansGiantsBears]

Because I am a Longhorn fan I also frequent some Longhorns boards. There are always some threads about VY and of course many what I call 2006 diehard Titans "fans". Here are some funny things they are saying today. Actually some are now accepting reality however the quotes below are from some that haven't.

My favorite was the person who said that the Titans doesn't have an OL or WR. You can make a compelling argument on the WR's maybe, but the Titans have one of the best OL's in the league! :lol

[pookha]

I was never fond of Bongo airing the Titans dirty laundry at the TOMB, I am still not fond of it today. Not that any of that matters because he certainly seems to enjoy it.
What happens in a locker room should stay there...IMO

frankly at times it was clear bongo either knew squat or he was getting played.

i dont know how many times he said some player would /would not play and the opposite would happen.

but i have just been laughing at the thread because as i noted i have reservations based on what i posted and because it sounds like an over wrought bad parody of some of stuff about volek and fisher.

[barnybyrd]

frankly at times it was clear bongo either knew squat or he was getting played.

i dont know how many times he said some player would /would not play and the opposite would happen.

but i have just been laughing at the thread because as i noted i have reservations based on what i posted and because it sounds like an over wrought bad parody of some of stuff about volek and fisher.

What's funny is - at one time they may have told him something just to see how he would react. Then when they found out he leaked like pouring water through a sieve, they decided to play with him.

[TTP77]

That thread has now devolved into a series of personal attacks and attacks on the beautiful South. Typical...

[Rolltide14TOMB]

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss221/vtitany10/yawn.gif

[pookha]

That thread has now devolved into a series of personal attacks and attacks on the beautiful South. Typical...

it has nothing to do with personal attacks but rather was a certain person who claimed again and again to have inside info was credible.

[Yvette]

I'm with TTP... that got pretty nasty but whatever floats their boat.

[pookha]

i am more tired then i thought.
i thought he was talking about this thread which sorta made me wonder.

now i see he is talking about the thread over there.
yeah that is a mess.

[315]

It has turned into everything they hated the TOMB for and not because the TOMB is gone. Its because NO ONE over there has any self-restraint and the mods will not control it... because to control it would even make them more like the TOMB. They are in a no win situation at this point.