The inevitable "Does Fisher need to go thread"

[Toronto]

Simple question, tough answers.

[PBV]

IDK, he has lost me though.
It'll take the whole season, (provided he turns it around and we make the playoffs) to like him or trust him.

[Rolltide14TOMB]

its not fisher's fault...we just dont have that many good players...we are gonna spend a little money

[Code Blue]

This team is about to have a huge turnover of veteran personnel and has plenty of youth at key positions. A coaching change now would allow a good Coach to come in and set this team up to win consistently year in and year out. The direction the Coaching staff is taking them is clearly the wrong the path. I truly believe we don't even know what our identity is on Offense...are we mainly pass, mainly run, we're not smashing it with Lendale...are we trying to be a finnesse Offense...I am lost as to who this team even is right now....and by their performance...I think they are too.

[TitansFan23]

You guys know how I feel.

[Toronto]

its not fisher's fault...we just dont have that many good players...we are gonna spend a little money

Fisher plays a huge role in who this team drafts and signs, so I couldn't disagree more on that.

For me, the jury is out on this. I never would have even dared starting a poll like this, but the complete epic no-show by 53 players and their respective coaches suggest to me we have bigger problems than we ever figured.

[TitansFan23]

It seems there are two trains of thought.

One, is that Fisher has been here for 15 years and if he can't get it done in that amount of time, bring in someone else and give them a shot.

The other one, is to keep Fisher here forever, like Joe Pa and Bobby Bowden. He's done enough in this league to go out on his own terms (except, IMO, he hasn't).

I've never considered him to be an elite coach.

Elite coaches have rings.

[Old Oilers Fan]

I think the jury is still out for now.

[don28]

I don't think a coaching change now would help. It would just cause complete chaos. A coaching change needs to be done at the conclusion of the season if so warranted.

I would vote "I don't know" if there was a choice. I've seen Fisher have some Lazarus-back-from-the-dead resurrections of teams before, but I have serious doubts about this season.

[NiagaraTitan]

After watching todays post game conference, even though he was calm and conservative.. I see a look of disbelief in his eyes. I see a man that just doesn't understand why this is happening.... along with a lot of us.

[Rolltide14TOMB]

if we go new coach hunting...i would say we become a doormat of the league for years to come....playoff coaches are hard to come by and at least we know that in a 10 year span fish can

A) have the best record twice
B) go to a super bowl
C) 2 championship games
D) multiple playoff appearances

thats all i got to defend Coach

[Sect309Fan]

I would rather stick with Fisher than anyone else.

[TTP77]

I don't think a coaching change now would help. It would just cause complete chaos. A coaching change needs to be done at the conclusion of the season if so warranted.

I would vote "I don't know" if there was a choice. I've seen Fisher have some Lazarus-back-from-the-dead resurrections of teams before, but I have serious doubts about this season.

pretty much sums it up for me too...

[TitansFan23]

I have never agreed with a mid-season HC change, but I think it needs to at least be pondered in the off-season.

The problem is, do we have an owner who at this point in his life has it in him to to anything?

[Jones31]

its not fisher's fault...we just dont have that many good players...we are gonna spend a little money

:bsflag

[don28]

At this point it looks like the Rams-Titans game will end in a 0-0 scoreless tie. Fisher will happily pronounce the team is "ready to turn the corner" after an 0-11-1 start.

[Jimmyd24]

its not fisher's fault...we just dont have that many good players...we are gonna spend a little money

NOOO
heaven forbid we might overpay someone

[slkHORN]

This team is about to have a huge turnover of veteran personnel and has plenty of youth at key positions. A coaching change now would allow a good Coach to come in and set this team up to win consistently year in and year out. The direction the Coaching staff is taking them is clearly the wrong the path. I truly believe we don't even know what our identity is on Offense...are we mainly pass, mainly run, we're not smashing it with Lendale...are we trying to be a finnesse Offense...I am lost as to who this team even is right now....and by their performance...I think they are too.

this.

As for fisher i have too much respect for him to say he's done, voted 'jury's out', but today i saw something that disgusted me. A man who by the evidence is so full of his own ego he refuses to admit poor decisions were made and correct them. Defense was constantly in the wrong positions, DelRio basically called out the D saying they prepared for those formations all week. Personnel on offense needs help, while i'm glad we saw more from Britt this week, i want less KC. He does NOT give us the best chance at a win, and no one believes you anymore fish. Playcalling on offense was well... i just don't know. Like codeBlue said, our identity is unknown, even to the team. Gone are the days of Fisherball i guess, but they've been replaced with a 'finesse' team who is anything but finesse. You've got smash and dash and superman (yes i know he still has to prove himself) but we didn't see two of the three today. The absence of Lendale really irritated me.

I'm not ready to call Fisher a failure, but he really needs to check his ego and do what's best for the team.

[Parddy]

I have never been so disappointed in a team as I was with the Titans today. Nobody here should escape blame either.

From the coaching staff to the players on the field there was a complete failure to execute. They stunk the house out today and embarrased themselves. No exceptions.

This team has more to play for now than it did starting the season. It's time to play for their jobs. Collins is done after this year with the Titans, question is, can the same be said for Vince Young? Let's find out.

Bulluck said it was time to impose some will. Well all I can say is the Jags did just that with a young and hungry roster.

Our team has lost the mental and physical toughness Fishers' teams have thrived on. I have no explanation for that. Kearse,Vanden Bosch and Bulluck looked disinterested today. Are they are veteran leadership on defense? I think I saw all three of them miss a tackle on the same play once today. Griff is an All-Pro safety? Laughable.

Jobs are on the line. Fishers included. I am as big a Fisherbot as there is too.

CJ is a playmaker and Kenny Britt looks like he might just be the W/R we were looking for. I would build an offensive line around Roos anytime, anywhere.

As far as everybody else? Play for your jobs because none of them have impressed me this year. None of them.

One team strapped on the pads and came to play today.. It wasn't us. Everyone is to blame.

[titansikou]

TBH, with the talent we have on defense performing as it has, I'm inclined to blame the coordinator first, coach second, and players last. From what I've seen - which isn't as much as most of you since my son's ysf games are on Sundays - Griff isn't playing like the player we know he is. KVB too.

[felloffthewagon]

I think he is a good coach, I am wondering if he has run his course here and it is just time for a new approach and a "fresh set of eyes" on the issues.

[InVinceWeTrust]

Could be that Fisher has reached the same stage here that Shanahan had reached in Denver, too unthreatened in his own role to know there's more to winning than leading with your own ego. Fish has blown alot - from his total mishandling of VY by trying to fundementally change him instead of going with the talent that is there, to elevating a staffer to DC who's clearly not up to it, to recycling an offensive OC who is no better than average at this job, to insisting an aging bus driver QB actually provides this team with "its best chance to win". All of these decisions have been inspired by Fisher's controlling nature and his ego driven inability to consider that doing things "his way" might actually be the wrong way. I'm not saying fire him now. But, unless he show's he's still capable of personal growth, of working outside his own comfort zone, then this should be his last year as this team's coach.

[LB]

some coaches, and some franchises, are meant to be losers....and im sick of it

[Toronto]

I have never been so disappointed in a team as I was with the Titans today. Nobody here should escape blame either.

From the coaching staff to the players on the field there was a complete failure to execute. They stunk the house out today and embarrased themselves. No exceptions.

This team has more to play for now than it did starting the season. It's time to play for their jobs. Collins is done after this year with the Titans, question is, can the same be said for Vince Young? Let's find out.

Bulluck said it was time to impose some will. Well all I can say is the Jags did just that with a young and hungry roster.
Our team has lost the mental and physical toughness Fishers' teams have thrived on. I have no explanation for that. Kearse,Vanden Bosch and Bulluck looked disinterested today. Are they are veteran leadership on defense? I think I saw all three of them miss a tackle on the same play once today. Griff is an All-Pro safety? Laughable.

Jobs are on the line. Fishers included. I am as big a Fisherbot as there is too.

CJ is a playmaker and Kenny Britt looks like he might just be the W/R we were looking for. I would build an offensive line around Roos anytime, anywhere.

As far as everybody else? Play for your jobs because none of them have impressed me this year. None of them.

One team strapped on the pads and came to play today.. It wasn't us. Everyone is to blame.


Wonderful post, and a vent I can relate to, the boldest sections in particular.

Here is my biggest beefs with the loss that have me questioning our staff for the first time this season.

1) We got outcoached today by a man I consider a truly bad coach.
2) For a team that claimed it had a 'great week' of practice, I saw nothing today to suggest any urgency in any of the players or staff. I saw vets just coast out there and make mistakes they had no business making.
3) There was no glance towards talent evaluation. WTF was the point sticking Collins back out there in a blowout?

More than anything else, I saw a team that did something I despise - basically stop playing hard. The screen and replays don't lie, and that is a direct reflection of this coaching staff.

[LB]

when it starts being more about Fisher's ego and his cool mustache than it is about the team, then I will lose faith in Fisher...and I think im there. Fisher is extremely lucky that Adams is the owner, or he probably would have been gone in '05

[TitansGiantsBears]

Could be that Fisher has reached the same stage here that Shanahan had reached in Denver, too unthreatened in his own role to know there's more to winning than leading with your own ego. Fish has blown alot - from his total mishandling of VY by trying to fundementally change him instead of going with the talent that is there, to elevating a staffer to DC who's clearly not up to it, to recycling an offensive OC who is no better than average at this job, to insisting an aging bus driver QB actually provides this team with "its best chance to win". All of these decisions have been inspired by Fisher's controlling nature and his ego driven inability to consider that doing things "his way" might actually be the wrong way. I'm not saying fire him now. But, unless he show's he's still capable of personal growth, of working outside his own comfort zone, then this should be his last year as this team's coach.

I defintely agree on the highlighted points. Sometimes even a good coach runs his course with a team. I don't know if Fisher has reached that point or not, but it happens. I think it's an excellent analogy and a question that needs to be answered if this team continues to look this poor. I don't however advocate changing in the middle of the season if management decides one is necessary.

I have seen nothing from Chuck Cecil that makes me believe he is even a decent defensive coordinator. Granted, he doesn't have the luxury of Haynesworth creating chaos in the middle like Schwartz did, but he seems scared to death to let his team play physical which is surprising given his background. It makes me wonder just how in charge of the defense he really is.

I may be in the minority but I've never thought of 'Dinger has an elite playcaller at OC. He's better than Norm Chow but that's far from a ringing endorsement. Sometimes I think that Chow was reined in while he was here as well and forced to shoehorn his offense into an amalgam of finesse and Fisherball. But back to Dinger, I believe he was brought back because he knows how Fisher wants to play it, not because of some elite skill he possesses.

Fisher is known to be stubborn and that can be a good thing in a head coach. I want a coach who will stick to his guns in the middle of the OK Corral but he still needs to be flexible enough to see the reality of what works and what doesn't. I've often said that a good coach in the NFL doesn't win games for you so much as he doesn't lose them. I'm not ready to give up on Fisher just yet, but he needs to understand that he's either part of the solution or part of the problem.

[Old Oilers Fan]

Right now I feel isn't the time to be wanting to get rid of the coach. We have plenty of time after the season to worry about that. Changing the coach isn't going to change the season. What we need to do now is to watch our team and stick with them. That is what fans do. Then after the season we can all go head hunting believe me my list of heads is growing game by game.

[Orca]

Not now, but at end of season if no substantial turnaround. Defensive coordinator should be fired now as a wakeup call to the team and staff.

[Sect309Fan]

Not now, but at end of season if no substantial turnaround. Defensive coordinator should be fired now as a wakeup call to the team and staff.

Should we have fired Schwartz after he took over the #1 defense and turned it into the #25 defense in 2001?

Just something to think about...

[Rolltide14TOMB]

Look at our roster...look at Baltimore's roster...looks at new england's...Pittsburgh

Do you really think that our roster is remotely close to these team's?
Obviously our whole secondary made the pro bowl thanks to Albert Haynesworth.
We have such pathetic depth on our defense that one wave of starters get hurt and before long we are starting 11 rookies.
We have a good offensive line, a great running back, and the rest of the players are so-so.

I challenge that Fish has done AMAZING with the players he has been given and that few coaches could do what he has done with less....Just imagine if he coached Pittsburgh!!!:jawdrop

I think 95% of the coaches in the league would suffer years like this more often that we do if they coached us

[earlers]

if we go new coach hunting...i would say we become a doormat of the league for years to come....playoff coaches are hard to come by and at least we know that in a 10 year span fish can

A) have the best record twice
B) go to a super bowl
C) 2 championship games
D) multiple playoff appearances

thats all i got to defend Coach

Huh...it seems that Harbaugh will eclipse Jeff's record in 5 years. There are plenty of playoff coaches out there...retreads are the problem.

[Old Oilers Fan]

Should we have fired Schwartz after he took over the #1 defense and turned it into the #25 defense in 2001?

Just something to think about...

Funny that you said this 309. Back then I was one that said yes and held it against him until he left. :lol

[Orca]

Should we have fired Schwartz after he took over the #1 defense and turned it into the #25 defense in 2001?

Just something to think about...

If I subscribed to this logic then I could never make a decision based on present data and anticipated future circumstances; I would just stand around with my head in a dark place worrying about precedents that might apply. "Past results do not guarantee future performance."

[Titanico]

I had enough with Fisher's roller-coasters' ways. This team deserves a more aggressive coach. Someone who knows how to be the right architect.

I don't buy the "15 years" thing...I prefer to look to the objective side, and see how a team that was able to play in one Super Bowl, has decided to let Rolle, Mason (who's doing an impressive job at Baltimore), Steve McNair go, and then leave rookies or players that haven't apport that much for the cause. E.G. : Reynaldo Hill, Ganther, Harper...and some more.

The so predictable play-calling. The way our players look ware-off. A missed pass, a fumble, an interception is not the Coach's to blame...but the play-calling is and it's hideous.

I still feel bad for CJ and that giantic game he had....and then we loss. WTF???
What the hell was Fisher thinking when choosing someone like Cecil?? We haven't seen any agressive defense as he said...so now we have to wait another 5 years so he understands what to do??? That's BS. Here we have a team that comes from a 13-3 season to become a 0-4 team?? Yes, I'm absolutely dissaponted with Fisher and his ways...it's time for him to go.

The erratic drafted players. That's a long list, but lets start with Vince Young. Has anyone seen Flacco, Ryan and Sanchez play and technique? Damn! Freakin' Flacco looked like an 8 year veteran to me when playing against New England yesterday!!
Then is when you see that Coaches and a F.O. are doing their job right.

That's the difference and that's what I'm talking about.

[hooktool]

Should we have fired Schwartz after he took over the #1 defense and turned it into the #25 defense in 2001?

Just something to think about...

Plenty of people wanted to. If it was up to the fans, it would be a revolving door at Baptist Sports Park. :D

John

[Titanico]

Should we have fired Schwartz after he took over the #1 defense and turned it into the #25 defense in 2001?

Just something to think about...

Schwartz was doing an awful job as well. We had to wait 5 years so he could do things right.

With the players we have now and coming from a 13-3 season, we really look like somebody's sandbox type of team. I am so sick and tired of we babysitting Coaches and some players, that is ridiculous.

Who's ready to wait another 5 years so Cecil can get his job right??

With the players we have now we should be doing more than this lousy 0-4 team we have.

[TitansFan370]

its not fisher's fault...we just dont have that many good players...we are gonna spend a little money

I respectfully disagree. The reason we don't have that many good players is Fisher and the GM's unwillingness to 1) admit the need and find "premier" players at wide receiver and quarterback(no KC nor VY is premier), 2) Fisher's unwillingness to hire Greg Williams and give complete control of the defense to Greg(note NO Saints defensive successes this year under Greg), 3) misuse of Chris Johnson as an every down running back, and 4)on and on and on.

While I have liked Fisher and this team has given me 10 years of exciting NFL football in Tennessee, I voted it is time to go because I think Fisher has reached the top of his potential here. We simply need a change in coaching, general management, and more exciting game planning. Sure we might be down a few years especially if the wrong coach is hired but it is time for a change. I am ready for a more dynamic offensive game with a Payton Manning/Tom Brady type quarterback and a Raven's defensive team.

[Sect309Fan]

Schwartz was doing an awful job as well. We had to wait 5 years so he could do things right.


He did pretty well in years 2 and 3 of his job. The run defense was especially good those years.

[Titanico]

He did pretty well in years 2 and 3 of his job. The run defense was especially good those years.

..and still we couldn't pull better seasons?


After past season, when we lost at our house against one of the most hated non-divisional rivals...I knew that Fisher is not the answer. He has been only a fairy delivering some sort of naive-tales around here.

Or somebody tell me, how does it works that we have the same core of players and now we are a 0-4 team? And also a team that is not playing with heart and guts?

And we know that playing with heart and guts it's not enough as it happened against Pittsburgh. Then we can "happily" go back to be a team that is not respected, and the media has all the reasons to think that we are a joke.

[Count Telecky]

Bulluck said it was time to impose some will. Well all I can say is the Jags did just that with a young and hungry roster.

I'd be all for getting rid of Fisher if we could bring in Apollo Creed.

"See that look in their eyes, Rock? You gotta get that look back, Rock. Eye of the tiger, man. Eye of the tiger "

[Yvette]

Should we have fired Schwartz after he took over the #1 defense and turned it into the #25 defense in 2001?

Just something to think about...
I was never on the Fire Schwartz bandwagon. At the time I said lets see what happens when he has healthy players... and ones with skill :D

I'm looking at Cecil now and wondering if he's inherited some players who are officially past their prime.

[Titan723]

I voted jury still out but am leaning towards yes.
Fisher reminds me alot of when Tubby Smith coached KY. He would do great in the regular season, but choke when it came time to postseason play. I just dont see us getting a ring with Fisher.
A new coach does not always have to be a bad thing. Baltimore went to the playoffs last season and are 3-1 this year with Harbaugh. Hell, the Colts are on their second head coach in 8 years and they have had hardly any dropoff in that time plus a Super Bowl.

[Aaron3322]

Fisher's the man we want.

[Toronto]

Should we have fired Schwartz after he took over the #1 defense and turned it into the #25 defense in 2001?

Just something to think about...

Did that defense have this kind of talent still healthy? Hope, Griffin, every LB, the entire d-line, is not jurt, just Finnegan if you want to talk about critical pieces.

We're also talking about effort here, not just injuries. What happened yesterday was disgusting, you can't overlook that. That entire unit played like it didn't give a damn yesterday, and back in 2001 I didn't see any player quit under Schwartz.

It's becoming clear to me the team lacks leadership at the player-level, do you think a Ray Lewis or a Teddy Bruschi would have let his unit do that?

[Sect309Fan]

It's becoming clear to me the team lacks leadership at the player-level, do you think a Ray Lewis or a Teddy Bruschi would have let his unit do that?

Do you really think Keith Bulluck would let his unit do that? I don't.

[TTP77]

There's only so much guys like Jevon Kearse and Keith Bulluck can do to motivate their team mates on D. Tony Brown too. At some point the other guys have to start looking in a mirror and asking themselves if it's them...and i have news for them it is.

[Parddy]

I was never on the Fire Schwartz bandwagon..



No you were not. If I remember correctly it was Fisher's head you wanted on a platter back then. :lol

[Parddy]

Do you really think Keith Bulluck would let his unit do that? I don't.


I didn't either. Yesterday makes me wonder though.

[Yvette]

Yes Parddy, that's true. I always follow the chain of command when schiznit goes south, and especially when damage control is slow.

"Coaches have to watch for what they don't want to see and listen to what they don't want to hear."

-- John Madden

[Toronto]

Do you really think Keith Bulluck would let his unit do that? I don't.

BS. Bulluck lollygagged it yesterday, unless you were watching a different game than me.

Want to see a defense try and right the ship? Watch Ron Rivera's tirade on the D yesterday after they went down 14-0, or the same story in Seattle. I didn't see any of that FROM ANYONE on the Titans yesterday, and that definately includes Bulluck.

[TitansGiantsBears]

Do you really think Keith Bulluck would let his unit do that? I don't.

Up until now I would say no. Bulluck gave a half-hearted effort himself yesterday. This defense is lacking in leadership and effort.

[hooktool]

..and still we couldn't pull better seasons?


After past season, when we lost at our house against one of the most hated non-divisional rivals...I knew that Fisher is not the answer. He has been only a fairy delivering some sort of naive-tales around here.

Or somebody tell me, how does it works that we have the same core of players and now we are a 0-4 team? And also a team that is not playing with heart and guts?

And we know that playing with heart and guts it's not enough as it happened against Pittsburgh. Then we can "happily" go back to be a team that is not respected, and the media has all the reasons to think that we are a joke.

Come on now. Fisher didn't fumble those footballs that cost us the game against the Ravens. It was a good game plan. You can blame a lot of stuff on him, and I won't argue-mostly because I don't really know. But not that game.

John

[Titanico]

Come on now. Fisher didn't fumble those footballs that cost us the game against the Ravens. It was a good game plan. You can blame a lot of stuff on him, and I won't argue-mostly because I don't really know. But not that game.

John

Agreed. I am not blaming Fisher for those fumbles at all. It's part of this constant roller-coaster that Fisher has brought this team into.

To be inconsistent, to say it in other words.

You have a team that got to play the Super Bowl, yet it failed on next year and on 2001 also to accomplish something more important. You have a team that gets to play the AFC Championship on 2003, and I still believe that it was better to lose to Oakland, since no team was pairing what Tampa Bay was bringing up to the table..and yet, you expect another good team for 2004, and we got another unexpected slide down.

We get this team that from the nowhere gets to be 10-0, finally gets the best regular season record, home advantage...and Fisher can't come up with plan A,B or C to approach that game?

I really see him turning into "This is what we do and we can't do anything else". That's not experience well used. That's only using what he had been using for so many years, and he can't adapt or change game plans.

This is what this team is getting since Fisher has become so predictable. How Baltimore, Indianapolis and NYG can still be so succesful with personel changes? That's the difference.

It's only matter of watching those teams to know that they have a very flexible game-plan calling and they try things that keep things going and that never gives the opponent a chance to relax or win easily.