The "call" by Belicheck

[Toronto]

Going to be interesting to debate this, think it deserves its own thread.

My thoughts?

I loved it. I would kill for a coach that goes for the jugular. Was it an insanely risky call? Probably. That being said, Manning was shredding them anyways and would have had over 2 minutes to go 60/70 yards, so...

He made the call. Get 2 yards, win the game, keep it out of Manning's hands. Balls. 31 other NFL coaches don't ever do that - not enough balls, too much fear of losing and being the scapegoat, etc.

He gets that first down, and he is lauded as the ballsiest cockiest and smartest coach that continues his reign of misery....

He make look awful at the moment, but I see no issue if I'm a Pat fan there with that call. He played to win, not to lose.

[nikki32]

My thoughts: The Emperor may have been balsy...but I believe he had no faith in their defense. Regardless of whether Peyton had a 70 yard field or a 30 yard one...I honestly believe that they would have pulled it out (Indy...not NE). Peyton can burn you with one throw. regardless of the fact that they are enemies in our division...he can still burn you. Brady looked pretty good mostly tonite...but I feel like from what I saw, he has no soul in this game anymore. JMO.

[Maximus]

Personally, I think I would've taken my chances on playing defense & punt the ball. True, the Colts had success moving the ball, but at the same time, the Pats had also picked Manning off twice.

Nothing wrong with having balls, but there are times when one is far better off not letting those balls do the thinking for them.

[Comar]

Loved it..........the way the game ended up that is!

[Sect309Fan]

I bet you ESPN's TMQ will approve that call. He loves it when teams go for it on 4th down.

If Fisher did it, we would be screaming for his head if it didn't work. But Bellichick has so much respect as a head coach in the league, he can get away with it. I personally am glad he did it. :D

[TRUTitan]

It was a good call to go for it, but the play called was horrid. If they would've ran the ball then they could've got the first, but they decided to throw it and well..... The Colts only had one TO left so if the Cheaters would've got the first they could've tried to run out the score. But they probably would've tried to run up the score and this is what they deserve. HA SUCK IT PATS!!!!!

[Jones31]

I was wondering when he'd throw his balls on the table on 4th down. Gutsy call, but I don't agree that it was the right call, not on the 30 in your own territory. The drive before when they decided to go prevent, all the way to the end zone.

[Mike McFan]

Stupid Belicheat !
Stupid Jets !:mad:

[Yvette]

Tedy Bruschi didn't like it (http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/news/story?id=4659264)

[SwissTitansFan]

Going to be interesting to debate this, think it deserves its own thread.

My thoughts?

I loved it. I would kill for a coach that goes for the jugular. Was it an insanely risky call? Probably. That being said, Manning was shredding them anyways and would have had over 2 minutes to go 60/70 yards, so...

He made the call. Get 2 yards, win the game, keep it out of Manning's hands. Balls. 31 other NFL coaches don't ever do that - not enough balls, too much fear of losing and being the scapegoat, etc.

He gets that first down, and he is lauded as the ballsiest cockiest and smartest coach that continues his reign of misery....

He make look awful at the moment, but I see no issue if I'm a Pat fan there with that call. He played to win, not to lose.

I would agree with you, if it worked....

....but...it didn't.....so the other move would have been to give the Colts the TD right away and still have about 1:50 on the clock for Brady to get into FG range and finish'em off....

That would be smart (in my books)....but like it ended, it still looks like a "wtf was he thinkin'...?"-play

[Maximus]

I was thinking the same thing as Bruschi. I think it did send a message of no faith in the Pats defense. I'm no fan of Rodney Harrison, but he basically said the same thing.

[Jones31]

Defending Belichick’s Fourth-Down Decision (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/defending-belichicks-fourth-down-decision/)

[Count Telecky]

I love how everyone is questioning the call. If they got the first down everyone would be saying that it was a brilliant call by the football genius Belicheck. He would have been applauded and then by Monday afternoon, no one would be talking about it anymore.

But they didn't get it so now it has becaome a "controversial call" and front page espn news.

:huh

[Jones31]

I didn't think it was a good idea to go for it even before they called timeout to go for it.

[Titan723]

Someone should have reminded the 'Hoodman' that he was playing a real game, not Madden.

Relating to this, I had to listen to the Colts radio guy on the call 2 or 3 times this morning. That guy sucks! I have never been able to stand him. I would rather hear Bryant Gumble and Cris Collinsworthless call a game then this turd.

[Jones31]

Yeah their radio team is atrocious.

[Big Time]

It was a good call to go for it, but the play called was horrid.


^ this. they should have run a fake pass/ QB sneak or an option at least.

[Toronto]

I love how everyone is questioning the call. If they got the first down everyone would be saying that it was a brilliant call by the football genius Belicheck. He would have been applauded and then by Monday afternoon, no one would be talking about it anymore.

But they didn't get it so now it has becaome a "controversial call" and front page espn news.

:huh

If this had occured in the Miami/TB or TEN/BUF game, this doesn't become a sensational story. But Pats/Colts on Sunday night with one team undefeated and both teams Super Bowl contenders and heavily hyped? Also, add the fact that the media DESPISES Belicheck? Feeding frenzy.

[Titansfan777]

My thoughts: The Emperor may have been balsy...but I believe he had no faith in their defense. Regardless of whether Peyton had a 70 yard field or a 30 yard one...I honestly believe that they would have pulled it out (Indy...not NE). Peyton can burn you with one throw. regardless of the fact that they are enemies in our division...he can still burn you. Brady looked pretty good mostly tonite...but I feel like from what I saw, he has no soul in this game anymore. JMO.

What do u mean no soul

[Jones31]

http://s46884.gridserver.com/images/uploads/l.png

[DelawareTitans]

Gutsiest call I've ever seen. Also the dumbest.

[MrBean]

I think the bigger moment in that end of the game was when one of the pats tackled the colt player at the 1 (In think it was Addai.) FFS, let em score. At least that way you leave Brady with about 1:19 left on the clock to march into FG range.

Honestly, first and goal stops at the 1 aren't impossible to hold them to no score, but it's not highly probable.

[Sect309Fan]

I bet you ESPN's TMQ will approve that call. He loves it when teams go for it on 4th down.


And I was right. :D

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091117&sportCat=nfl

[Jones31]

LOL, I'm at ease with it now, but it's over now, got to regroup and get ready for some payback on the SUCKS

[TitansGiantsBears]

Decisions like this one are why coaches like Belichick, etc, are paid the big money. I don't have problems with the decision to go for it. I understand what he was trying to accomplish. Make that first down and the game is over. However, I do question the play call itself. You want to go with a play that's going to get you more yards than what is needed, not one that requires a move. If that were a three-yard route the game would have been over. Whether it was a bad call or a good one comes down to one thing - did it work? The answer is no, so it was a bad decision.

[TRUTitan]

I was thinking the same thing as Bruschi. I think it did send a message of no faith in the Pats defense. I'm no fan of Rodney Harrison, but he basically said the same thing.

Then he was correct for thinking that then. Cause they could not stop the Colts. Like Nikki said, belicheat made a decision to win the game. It does not matter if it is 30 yds or 70 yds. Peyton will always get them with the game on the line. (At least in the regular season. In the post season he crawls into the fetal position and tells everyone to go away.):D


If this had occured in the Miami/TB or TEN/BUF game, this doesn't become a sensational story. But Pats/Colts on Sunday night with one team undefeated and both teams Super Bowl contenders and heavily hyped? Also, add the fact that the media DESPISES belicheat? Feeding frenzy.


The only thing me and the media ever agree on.

[Jones31]

The Colts did beat them last time they played in the playoffs.... much like they did on Sunday night. Peyton will beat any defense that is sucking wind like the Pats were.

[GoPats]

It's taken a couple of days for me to fully process this.

While part of me appreciates the cahones it took to make that call, my inner Pats fans knows that we gave it up without making Manning and the Colts earn it. I suppose it's easy to say now, knowing the outcome of the play, but I would rather have seen them punt the ball and put the onus on Indy to make a few plays.

Anything can happen over the course of a drive, even when things are clicking like they were for the Colts. A bad snap, a guy runs a bad route, a guy falls down, fumbles, interceptions... there are tons of variables. I understand that the Colts' offense was nearly unstoppable at the end there, but I still think you make 'em earn it. If they do, and if you lose the game, so be it. But for the game, the Colts had 14 possessions with seven punts and two INTs. With the exception of the final couple of drives, the Pats' defense was doing alright. Don't forget Indy's biggest gain in the 4th came on a pass interference call.

I'm also not buying the "it was a good call" theory as based on statistics. Something along the lines where going for the first down is something like 60% whereas stopping the ensuing drive would be around 50%. (Those aren't exact numbers, but there have been tons of articles the past few days if you google "Belichick," "4th down call," and "statistics.") The 60% conversion rate on 4th down includes much less meaningful scenarios as well as all of the league's teams, including the bad ones... not so much for an undefeated Colts team, at home. And if that's the theory (that going for it on 4th down makes more sense), why would you punt in any situation, at any point in the game, unless you're at 4th and 10 or longer?

What's probably more unsettling than anything about the loss is the way the Patriots dominated for about 55 minutes and then choked it away. The trademark of the Super Bowl teams was that they never beat themselves - no stupid mistakes, bad decisions, or untimely screw-ups. While I'm pretty sure that the Patriots are still a great team in terms of the Xs and Os, I now sort of question their composure, their moxie, and their ability to make clutch plays at important moments of games.

It was just one game, so maybe I'm reading into it too much. But when you look at Sunday combined with the Super Bowl against the Giants, the AFC Championship Game in Indy back in the '06 season, and the playoff loss in Denver in '05... it seems like it's been quite a while since the Patriots have won a big game. Playoffs in '07, sure, but they were supposed to win those.

Much like BB, I'm just moving on. It's not like he's going to be fired over this, so it's time to start thinking about whupping the Jets and getting a little retribution for September.

[Titan723]

Much like BB, I'm just moving on. It's not like he's going to be fired over this, so it's time to start thinking about whupping the Jets and getting a little retribution for September.

Hopefully the Hoodman runs up the score if he has the chance.

[GoPats]

Hopefully the Hoodman runs up the score if he has the chance.

Well now that we know Rex Ryan is a cryer, that's the goal.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2009/11/18/2009-11-18_theres_no_crying_in_football_new_yorkers_say_je ts_coach_rex_ryans_blubbering_was.html

[MDK Titan]

Hopefully the Hoodman runs up the score if he has the chance.

naw it will be another close game

[Yvette]

Well now that we know Rex Ryan is a cryer, that's the goal.
Kind of like a shark smelling one drop of blood in 25 gallons of water. This could be ugly :hide

[Jones31]

The guys on the Blitz were predicting a 20 pt win for the Pats.

That would be nice.

[Sect309Fan]

The guys on the Blitz were predicting a 20 pt win for the Pats.

That would be nice.

It certainly helps the Titans out. Go Pats!

[Jones31]

Rubs eyes.......... wha!

[Sect309Fan]

I hope the Pats win out the rest of the year (except the Saints game - I want them to go undefeated).

The Titans need help to reach the playoffs. Every AFC win by the Pats, Colts, and Bengals helps the Titans out. :thumbsup

(Broncos - Chargers will be determined after this week's game. I want the winner to keep winning and the loser to keep losing).

[Jones31]

Trust me.... rooting for a team to go undefeated takes a toll. Way too stressfull, even bigger letdown if you don't win it all. Lose one or two. But the weight of the world comes bearing down in JAN/FEB.

[GoPats]

Go Pats!

Yeah? What?

:lol

[GoPats]

Trust me.... rooting for a team to go undefeated takes a toll. Way too stressfull, even bigger letdown if you don't win it all. Lose one or two. But the weight of the world comes bearing down in JAN/FEB.

Not worth it, I agree. Better to take a loss or two somewhere along the way and win the games that matter most.

[TitansGiantsBears]

The Colts did beat them last time they played in the playoffs.... much like they did on Sunday night. Peyton will beat any defense that is sucking wind like the Pats were.

I read something yesterday I didn't realize. The Colts have beaten them 5 out of the last 6 times they've played. Could that be right?

[Jones31]

Yep, last time the Pats beat them was 2007.

[GoPats]

I read something yesterday I didn't realize. The Colts have beaten them 5 out of the last 6 times they've played. Could that be right?

Yup.

Going backwards...

2009 - 64% of the time you go for it on 4th and 2, it works every time...
2008 - Pats nearly pull off the upset in Indy with Cassel at the helm...
2007 - Undefeated regular season, Pats win on the road...
2006 - 2x, once in the regular season, once in the AFC-CG, both at Indy...
2005 - Colts won regular season game, Manning's first and only win at Gillette...

I don't think it's any small coincidence that the home team has kind of dominated this series. And since both teams won their divisions for several years in a row (and both finished second last year, as you guys know!), the match-ups continue. I believe the scheduling formula has it shifting back to Foxboro in 2010 (assuming both teams win their divisions).

[Jones31]

Yep they will be back in Foxboro next year.
http://www.johnnyroadtrip.com/schedules/nfl_future_afce.htm

[Livid13]

HORRID call, regardless of how his "D" was playing. On your own 28, are you kidding me ?

[Jones31]

Teams attempted 303 4th down conversions in '09, that's most thru 10 weeks since at least 1990 (273, 1995)

[TTP77]

I just saw that on twitter. pretty interesting

[MDK Titan]

Trust me.... rooting for a team to go undefeated takes a toll. Way too stressfull, even bigger letdown if you don't win it all. Lose one or two. But the weight of the world comes bearing down in JAN/FEB.
No one outside of Massachusets really likes the Pats, its a different story with the Saints people all over actually like them.

[GoPats]

No one outside of Massachusets really likes the Pats, its a different story with the Saints people all over actually like them.

Not anymore... they did back in '01 though. :thumbsup

We've got Jones. He's all we need. :toast

[Parddy]

No one outside of Massachusets really likes the Pats, its a different story with the Saints people all over actually like them.

Well Connecticut, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine might disagree with you here.

[Jones31]

It's pretty funny, I see plenty of Pats fans on the road down here. Don't know where MDK is coming from.

[MDK Titan]

ok the whole New England area :lol

[Jones31]

LOLZ!