I'm kinda in the mind that Fisher was gonna make the QB switch at the bye week....

[MrBean]

regardless of Bud telling him too.

Think of it, the first 3 games we were close and coulda won and the bad play wasn't really anything to do with the QB. Then we start to get hurt on the defense so you know the games are gonna be harder to win with the way we are playing.

The we start having the bad losses, truly bad losses. So of those truly bad games, where do you switch to Young?

Against Jax where he has had problems before? And this time will have a decimated defense?

Against Indy, who were gonna put up points fast because of the decimated defense?

Or against the Pats, who we always seem to have problems with, and also with our decimated secondary, are gonna be in a shootout in.

No, since we have an earlier bye, you wait till then, let the team start to get healthy again, time to gel together again. and give them more time to gameplan.

Sure it was against Jax, who I already mentioned that Vince has had issues with in the past, but at least this game rather than the earlier one this season, he has help with a healthier defense.

And I am pretty sure that getting a win with Vince's first game back was probably a huge priority in the coaches mind. Cause "wins make everything better."

[Old Oilers Fan]

I agree I always felt the way the season was going that the change was going to be made after the bye. With the bye Vince and the team had a better chance to prepare with each other since Vince and Collins are two completely different QBs . I still wish that Bud would have just sit back and see what Fishers plan really was before he told the other team who to prepare for at QB.

[Parddy]

I'm sure Fish didn't mind getting the order from the top. If VY had failed miserably this time around coach Fisher would have been in the clear as it was not his decision, it was Bud's.

With VY playing so well, and the team responding so nicely, Bud is very happy.


Either way Fish comes out smelling like a rose in Bud's eyes.... Shrewd.

[hooktool]

You may be right, that's been on my mind. Fisher never said that Vince wouldn't be the starter, and many assumed that it was Bud speaking up that forced him to do it.

Maybe we'll know when Fisher writes his book. :)

John

[amy]

"I still wish that Bud would have just sit back and see what Fishers plan really was before he told the other team who to prepare for at QB. "

Since Fisher has stated that he keeps Mr. Adams apprised of things on a weekly basis, if not more often, I would suspect that Bud knew what Fisher's plan was. Which leads me to believe that Fisher had no plans to give VY a chance at playing. Instead, he was going to wait out the injuries, assuming the team would be ok once the major players got back into the game. But Mr. Adams, to his credit, decided to give his investment a chance to put up or shut up, as it were. And now, four games later, we are near .500 and moving on up! I for one, am glad Mr. Adams took matters into his own hands.

[TTP77]

Since Fisher has stated that he keeps Mr. Adams apprised of things on a weekly basis, if not more often, I would suspect that Bud knew what Fisher's plan was. Which leads me to believe that Fisher had no plans to give VY a chance at playing. Instead, he was going to wait out the injuries, assuming the team would be ok once the major players got back into the game. But Mr. Adams, to his credit, decided to give his investment a chance to put up or shut up, as it were. And now, four games later, we are near .500 and moving on up! I for one, am glad Mr. Adams took matters into his own hands.

I don't think there's any way it went down as you suggest. Fisher would be fired if he directly defied Bud telling him to start Vince. No, instead of picking up the phone and telling his coach what he wanted Bud ran his mouth to the media and created a stink where one need not exist. Fisher may be a lot of things but the dude is not stupid. If the owner says he wants Vince starting he'd start him. This did not have to be made public. It only took a phone call. That's all on Bud IMO.

[slkHORN]

I don't think there's any way it went down as you suggest. Fisher would be fired if he directly defied Bud telling him to start Vince. No, instead of picking up the phone and telling his coach what he wanted Bud ran his mouth to the media and created a stink where one need not exist. Fisher may be a lot of things but the dude is not stupid. If the owner says he wants Vince starting he'd start him. This did not have to be made public. It only took a phone call. That's all on Bud IMO.

ummm... you may want to read what you quoted. She never said Fisher defied Bud. Only that Fisher had no intentions of started Young until Bud stepped in and demanded it. And i tend to agree with her. Yvette and I were talking about this last night. It seems the entire coaching staff was surprised at the progress VY has made, you're not surprised if you've been watching it in practice every day. Which tells me that Fisher wasn't really considering putting Vince in until he got the call from upstairs. THAT, and the fact that like Amy said, if Fisher had been telling Bud he was going to start VY after the bye, Bud would have no reason to tell Fisher to start him after the bye.

[Old Oilers Fan]

So Fisher goes to Bud and tell him who all his starters are for that week? If that is the case then why did the VY debate went through the press instead of a Coach/owner private conversation like all other Titan football business? I never know the Titans discussing their real plans through the press.

[TTP77]

I think he eventually was going to make the move but Bud made him do it before he wanted. She suggested Bud was in the loop all along on the QB decision and knew what Fisher's plans were. I don't think it went down that way at all. If there were conversations all Bud had to do was suggest what he wanted and Fisher would do it. Why would Bud go to the media to get Fisher to make the move? All he had to do was make a phone call.

[Old Oilers Fan]

I think he eventually was going to make the move but Bud made him do it before he wanted. She suggested Bud was in the loop all along on the QB decision and knew what Fisher's plans were. I don't think it went down that way at all. If there were conversations all Bud had to do was suggest what he wanted and Fisher would do it. Why would Bud go to the media to get Fisher to make the move? All he had to do was make a phone call.

I agree, Fisher was being Fisher and telling the press what he wants them to hear so the press went to Bud and Bud told them what he wants. You put them both together and you have a big story. " Bud forces Fisher to start Vince Young"

[TTP77]

Makes you wonder if Bud's finger fiasco actually helped Fisher's cause....

[hooktool]

On the radio this afternoon, David Climer was quite adamant that Bud told him to do it, and that Fisher evn tried to talk him out of. He implied that people that knew told him this.

For whatever it's worth.:)

John

[TTP77]

Yea, of course he did. He told the whole world that he wanted Vince starting. If Bud told Fisher to start Vince in a private conversation before he went to the media then he should fire Jeff Fisher. The "directive" was a public one and if it was anything else then you really have to wonder about this organization.

[earlers]

TTP77...I'm with you all of the way. Additionally, Hooktool...I heard Climer say that same thing today. Climer thinks that there still are some bruised ego on Jeff's part.

[don28]

In my opinion, Kerry Collins would STILL be starting if Jeff Fisher had his way.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Fisher "suddenly retires" if this season does not end in a playoff birth.

[TitanPop]

In my opinion, Kerry Collins would STILL be starting if Jeff Fisher had his way.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Fisher "suddenly retires" if this season does not end in a playoff birth.

With 2 years left on his contract?

[pookha]

On the radio this afternoon, David Climer was quite adamant that Bud told him to do it, and that Fisher evn tried to talk him out of. He implied that people that knew told him this.

For whatever it's worth.:)

John

climer has been wrong in the past despite his outside sources.
there are some things like the closed practices directly after the pats loss and before the public statement i believe that pointed out vince would be starting.



but it just makes so much sense to make the change at the bye.
they have extra time to prep vince and they also knew they would be getting back fuller and finnegan.

from fisher himself..


In an interview on WKRN-TV Tuesday night, Fisher said that the quarterback decision would "be revealed over the next couple of days."

He denied any tension with Adams.

"We talk. We've been communicating through the whole process, and we don't have any issues," he said. "Despite what you hear, despite what you read, the decisions we make are collective decisions."

[TRUTitan]

I agree with SLKhorn Amy and hook. I still remember that week and Fisher had the look of a scolded dog in those interviews. If Bud would not have stepped in KC would still be starting and I wouldn't be surprised if we were still looking for that first win. Fisher is always dead set in his ways. Yet we wonder why Harper is on the field rather than Hood. Or why Hill stuck around so damn long.

[Parddy]

Interesting thread, kudos to all.

Fish has definitely taken one on the chin this year. What will he learn from it is my question. I guess only time will tell?

The team was lethargic coming out of the gates and looking back I think Collins' biggest downfall is he is not a real 'vocal' leader. Even the Fish takes a 'business' approach to his leadership qualities. Fisher was loyal to a fault with regards to Kerry without a doubt. I tend to agree with Bean however, that he probably would have started VY after the bye. Obviously, we will never know.

VY has infused excitement, spark and fun back into this team. Those are true qualities of a leader and Vince Young is exhibiting them. A lot of people on this board and others believed in him, I was not one of them. I was wrong. Was the Fish wrong too?

I'd like to think over the past year Fisher has taken and molded an immature, head hanging Young into a.... well, the sky sure appears to be the limit. That is what I would like to think and admit I'd be looking through my Fish tinted glasses by doing so.

Bud's the boss and Fisher knows him well. I believe the "who to start when and who said to start him" is a bigger story to us and the media than it is in a locker room. Fisher has had a tough year due to the decisions that he alone made and he is accountable for those decisions. Fish knows that. What has he learned from it remains my question.

Jeff Fisher is a good football coach, my hope is he stays and will adapt to the lessons learned from 2009. That's what good coaches do. IMO

[pookha]

without finny and fuller and the chance to regroup with the bye i dont know if they would have won with vince.
the defense was just so horrible in those last couple of games.

[Yvette]

Yvette and I were talking about this last night. It seems the entire coaching staff was surprised at the progress VY has made, you're not surprised if you've been watching it in practice every day.
And some of the players seemed surprised, too. How did so many people not see major improvement? It just boggles my mind. The only thing I can come up with is that VY just went thru the paces, and was holding back all the extra work he was putting in, biding his time. Kind of like an ace in the hole.

[hooktool]

I agree with SLKhorn Amy and hook. I still remember that week and Fisher had the look of a scolded dog in those interviews. If Bud would not have stepped in KC would still be starting and I wouldn't be surprised if we were still looking for that first win. Fisher is always dead set in his ways. Yet we wonder why Harper is on the field rather than Hood. Or why Hill stuck around so damn long.

You shouldn't agree with me cause I don't know.:lol I was kinda thinking like MrBean that maybe Fish was going to do it anyway. Climer seems pretty adamant it was Bud's orders. Beats me.:huh :lol

In any case I'm glad someone made the decision.:thumbsup

John

[don28]

With 2 years left on his contract?

Most coaches don't retire as lame ducks.

[Jones31]

Climer seems pretty adamant it was Bud's orders
That's not saying much.

[amy]

Mr. Adams went public because Fisher was NOT going to start Vince. He forced his hand because he had to. Fisher saying they were in communication throughout the process is saying nothing-which is what Fisher usually says.

And were the other players surprised because they thought Vince wasn't ready or because they knew Fisher wasn't ever going to give him a chance?

questions, questions, and more questions!

[MrBean]

Mr. Adams went public because Fisher was NOT going to start Vince. He forced his hand because he had to.

And you know this as a fact how?

[315]

None of us know those facts and everything is speculation.

[Sect309Fan]

It makes the most logical sense that for Bud to do what he did, Fisher was very reluctant to start Vince.

Here are some quotes from Fisher:

"Collins gives us the best chance to win"

"We have to improve as a team and that is what we are working on," Fisher said. "Kerry is not the reason. Our football team is the reason we're at where we're at, not the quarterback position.''

"Both quarterbacks had a good week, but [Collins] had an especially good week last week," Fisher said. "I'm not going to go into details about the lineup changes. Those are competitive issues."

[Old Oilers Fan]

I agree with SLKhorn Amy and hook. I still remember that week and Fisher had the look of a scolded dog in those interviews. If Bud would not have stepped in KC would still be starting and I wouldn't be surprised if we were still looking for that first win. Fisher is always dead set in his ways. Yet we wonder why Harper is on the field rather than Hood. Or why Hill stuck around so damn long.

Then explain the Jevon Kearse, Ryan Fowler moves?

[TRUTitan]

Then explain the Jevon Kearse, Ryan Fowler moves?

I believe Jevon is more of a discipline issue and Tulloch probably had a better practice.:D

[TTP77]

Then explain the Jevon Kearse, Ryan Fowler moves?

We also sat Javon Haye this year and put Sen'Derrick Marks in the mix at DT.

[Old Oilers Fan]

I believe Jevon is more of a discipline issue and Tulloch probably had a better practice.:D

:lol :thumbsup

[TTP77]

Certainly all Titans fans had much to be happy about following the Titans 20-17 victory over the Houston Texans on Monday Night Football.

Tennessee won its fourth-consecutive game, becoming the first team in NFL history to start a season 0-6 and then win four straight games.

One certain fan -- the happiest of all Jeff Fisher supporters -- was exceptionally excited after the Week 11 victory.

Jeanette Fisher, the head coach's mother, was a long time listener, first time caller from California on Tuesday night's Jeff Fisher Show on Titans Radio.

''Hi Coach,'' Jeanette said. ''I just want to know how high you jumped when Houston missed the field goal last night.''

Coach Fisher heard the voice and knew exactly who was on the line.

''This is a familiar voice,'' Fisher said. ''This is Coach Fisher's mom.''

''Your Dad and I just want to congratulate you on the game last night,'' Jeanette said. ''Have a Happy Thanksgiving.''

:) From Titansradio

[Parddy]

"And sweety pie, Daddy wants to know why you didn't start Hood?"

[Sect309Fan]

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20091129/SPORTS01/91129032/1027/LenDale+White+benched+for+lateness

Adams also confirmed what The Tennessean initially reported: He made the decision to start quarterback Vince Young when the Titans started 0-6.

“I don’t get involved with the coaches. I made this move this time because I see we had lost six in a row and we had 21 of the 22 players that got us the best record in the NFL in 2008,’’ Adams said. “I said, ‘It is time to make a change right now.’

“Not that I was against (Kerry Collins), but Vince was ready to go in there and play and he’s played like I thought he would play, too.’’

[TTP77]

"I about peed in my pants,'' Titans owner Bud Adams admitted. "Vince is a great quarterback and he is going to be one for a long time. To do what he did today, very few quarterbacks, I don't care how much experience, can do what he did.''

:lmao Bud is killing me!!

[Mike McFan]

It makes the most logical sense that for Bud to do what he did, Fisher was very reluctant to start Vince.

Here are some quotes from Fisher:

"Collins gives us the best chance to win"

"We have to improve as a team and that is what we are working on," Fisher said. "Kerry is not the reason. Our football team is the reason we're at where we're at, not the quarterback position.''

"Both quarterbacks had a good week, but [Collins] had an especially good week last week," Fisher said. "I'm not going to go into details about the lineup changes. Those are competitive issues."

Fish was NEVER going to start VY without being made to do it.:crazy

[MrBean]

Fish was NEVER going to start VY without being made to do it.:crazy

One last thing on defense of the coaches. They have all come out at different times and said the Vince on the field now is not the #10 they were seeing.

[pookha]

the vince they were seeing in practice may have been similar to what was seen in camp and preseason.
he was very good at times and then things went wonky.
i still suspect those closed practices and how vince responded to them was the final piece in what we are seeing now.

[slkHORN]

One last thing on defense of the coaches. They have all come out at different times and said the Vince on the field now is not the #10 they were seeing.

My question is still were they really looking? or had they just written Young off already

[pookha]

as i said in my post he had looked at times all over the place in some practices.
brillant and commanding and then if something went wrong different.

it might have taken time for the effect of steve's death further sinking in with watching the troubles the team was going through for the final pieces fall into place.

i would like to know if bud was around for those closed practices.
because i wonder if they had not gone well if the change would have taken place.

vince in those practices may have shown something special to them because they are putting a lot of trust in him how they are doing things.