Dillusional Longhorn/VY Fan [Archive] - TitansTailgate.com Message Board

Hookem Horns

04-27-2009, 04:55 PM

I just read this post on a Texas Longhorn's board as a reply to someone saying the Texans taking Mario (passing on Bush and VY) looks genius 3 years later.

They say hindsight is 20/20, but some people won't event open their eyes a few years down the road.

Not picking Mario gets the Texans two trips to the playoffs. Instead they've never been and no one is giving them a free ticket this year.

It was one of the biggest goof up and PR nightmares in NFL draft history at the time and it was cemented when on the field the next two years when Vince gave them the losses that kept them out of the playoffs.

So VY single handedly has kept the Texans out of the playoffs for 2 years? I guess the Titans defense, the fact that the Texans lost to several other teams during those seasons because they were just not that good had nothing to do with it.

I wonder what he thinks kept the Texans out of the playoffs last season? Maybe it was VY's magic stare from the bench? Maybe the Texans were unknowingly given VY saugage before each game causing them to be sluggish on the field?

BTW, what Titans board are all the VY worshippers posting to these days? I don't see any over here.

shadowboxin'

04-27-2009, 05:47 PM

Well, Vince does have an impressive record of 10-2 or something against the Texans. :lol

In reality, nobody knows how Vince would have fared in Houston. Different offense, different city (hometown), different atmostphere. It could've worked out for the better, he could've very well taken them to the playoffs. But nobody knows that know do they.

Some Longhorns will defend Vince to a fault because of what he did at Texas. They'll follow whatever NFL team he (or any other Longhorn) is on, and loathe the teams that dismiss him as an NFL QB. Other Horns (like myself) realize that Vince is not in Austin anymore, and needs to get his **** together if he wants to be "VY" in the NFL. It's not the Titans' fault (though it is a common theory) that Vince hasn't panned out thus far. Some of that may be due to Chow or whatever you want to call it, but the majority of that falls on Vince's shoulders.

Fact of the matter is, with the picks as they were, the Texans came out of it better than either of the two other teams (as far as that individual player's performance is concered).

BTW - The VY worshippers are back to being Longhorn/non-Titans fans for now. They'll come back when Vince does.

Zephyr

04-27-2009, 05:58 PM

I just read this post on a Texas Longhorn's board as a reply to someone saying the Texans taking Mario (passing on Bush and VY) looks genius 3 years later.

So VY single handedly has kept the Texans out of the playoffs for 2 years? I guess the Titans defense, the fact that the Texans lost to several other teams during those seasons because they were just not that good had nothing to do with it.

I wonder what he thinks kept the Texans out of the playoffs last season? Maybe it was VY's magic stare from the bench? Maybe the Texans were unknowingly given VY saugage before each game causing them to be sluggish on the field?

BTW, what Titans board are all the VY worshippers posting to these days? I don't see any over here.

hater

Yvette

04-27-2009, 06:05 PM

Zephyr, you gonna become a Bears fan this year? :D

Zephyr

04-27-2009, 06:06 PM

Zephyr, you gonna become a Bears fan this year? :D

you forgot to post the link to their message board :lol

Big Time

04-27-2009, 06:08 PM

TTP77

04-27-2009, 06:11 PM

Hi, my name is TTP77 and I am a delusional fan. :lol

Titans and Turtles

04-27-2009, 06:27 PM

LOL. this is an amusing thread. :D

There are plenty of us who still really like Young.

I hope his return is very spectacular and triumphant, but will settle for him being a good Titans QB that learns to deal like Mcnair and Collins (also O'Donnell and even Volek, to an extent.)

I'd like to see his return too. But it won't happen here. That ship has sailed. This is still the wrong fit for VY. It's no better a fit because they actually are getting better pass-catching talent. If anything, that's making it a worse fit.

To be the Fisherball QB, you gotta stay in the pocket, work your progressions, do your checkdowns, take the ball from under center. This is not, and will never be Vince's game.

I still think Vince can be decent elsewhere - a fresh city, a coach who is not married to a playstyle that is the 180 degreee antithesis of VY football.

But here?

Vince is done. 100%, completely and totally, finished.

Hookem Horns

04-27-2009, 06:30 PM

Actually I hope you guys cut him and he ends up playing (and starting) for the Redskins. That would be awesome considering most VY fans around here are also Cowboys fans. I would love to see who they are rooting for on Sundays with that scenario.

Big Time

04-27-2009, 06:41 PM

I always thought Fisherball was being able to run the option on most running plays, which is why we need a good scrambler, but also being able to hit the medium and deep balls about 30% of the time, especially on 3rd downs. That's my admittedly amateur definition of it anyway.

VY has a strong arm and can throw far and now has the people who can adjust and reach up and get it to convert on the few occasions when they can't run it effectively.

Hookem Horns

04-27-2009, 06:44 PM

I'd like to see his return too. But it won't happen here. That ship has sailed. This is still the wrong fit for VY. It's no better a fit because they actually are getting better pass-catching talent. If anything, that's making it a worse fit.

To be the Fisherball QB, you gotta stay in the pocket, work your progressions, do your checkdowns, take the ball from under center. This is not, and will never be Vince's game.

I still think Vince can be decent elsewhere - a fresh city, a coach who is not married to a playstyle that is the 180 degreee antithesis of VY football.

But here?

Vince is done. 100%, completely and totally, finished.

I agree. Vince thought just showing up and "being Vince" was all it would take to be successful in the NFL. Unfortunately for him he was made to believe that from all of his worshippers here. Sure, it kind of worked for 1 season but it didn't take NFL teams long to figure him out. When they did and you guys started booing him he couldn't handle it because he was so used to being worshipped. So things got bad and he quit on Fisher, his teammates, and you fans. Pouting and refusing to go back in is probably one of the worst ways to quit outside of just walking out of the stadium. Just quitting is the biggest no-no in sports that I can think of.

Fisher (while he can never admit it publically) doesn't want him there and can you blame him? Hopefully for your sakes Bud has had his fun with the city of Houston and will let Fisher make the calls from now on with this one.

Titanico

04-27-2009, 06:44 PM

I just read this post on a Texas Longhorn's board as a reply to someone saying the Texans taking Mario (passing on Bush and VY) looks genius 3 years later.

So VY single handedly has kept the Texans out of the playoffs for 2 years? I guess the Titans defense, the fact that the Texans lost to several other teams during those seasons because they were just not that good had nothing to do with it.

I wonder what he thinks kept the Texans out of the playoffs last season? Maybe it was VY's magic stare from the bench? Maybe the Texans were unknowingly given VY saugage before each game causing them to be sluggish on the field?

:lolhit:lol

BTW, what Titans board are all the VY worshippers posting to these days? I don't see any over here.

:glare Please do not invoke'em... :huh

I'm good like it is. :thumbsup

Big Time

04-27-2009, 06:48 PM

Fisher (while he can never admit it publically) doesn't want him there and can you blame him?

Yeah, I always got that impression as well. It would seem that the Fish convinced Bud to at least try another way with KC.

It's hard to disagree with the Fish about anything football these days.

felloffthewagon

04-27-2009, 06:59 PM

don28

04-27-2009, 07:33 PM

HookemHorns and Shadowboxin' are two of the rare kind of Longhorn fan. You actually see Vince for what he is, not what he did in college. Thank you for your unbiased slant; I thought that there were no Longhorn fans who didn't wear burnt orange glasses when it came to Vince Young.

That said, Vince won't be better anywhere else unless he straightens his head out. It's not about offensive systems, it's about football fundamentals. Reading coverage, checking down, making short throws, medium throws, and long throws accurately on a consistent basis are things that Vince should have made vast improvements on by now.

Then there is the psychological side. When push came to shove, he came out looking like a front runner. He was a force when it was all going his way, but he folded like a lawn chair when teams had an answer for his limited NFL game. Rarely do people overcome things like this. We'll all see what Vince Young does this upcoming season.

titansikou

04-27-2009, 10:28 PM

Have you noticed that without the homerism there also isn't the 'haterism'?

I don't completely agree that Vince couldn't work here. Actually with better receivers, it is a better fit. He isn't (or wasn't, who knows what he's been up to these last few months?) a thread the ball passer so he needs people who can win the ball for him. Also, he could fit into a Fisherball system IF he did his homework. Fisherball requires impeccable execution, that is why you have people like Hawkins on the sideline all season. To execute you need reps., but you also need the kind of smarts you get from perfecting skills and watching tape. I don't buy into the 'vince is too dumb' argument. From what we've heard, Vince has been too lazy and lacks self-discipline.

TTP77

04-27-2009, 10:46 PM

IDK if Vince will ever have another chance here. My gut feeling is the answer is no. But, if he does then drafting Kenny Britt was the best thing the Titans could have done since he knows how to catch passes that are not that well thrown (Mike Teel anyone?).

I do think Vince went through a personal crisis of sorts after his first year that affected his play. It remains to be seen if he has recovered from whatever issues or issues those were. But, I'm afraid the damage is done and his time here is limited.

I'm really not trying to start another VY debate...:doh

Big Time

04-27-2009, 10:49 PM

Part of me sort of looks forward to a minor injury to KC during the regular season.

Not that I want KC to be hurt, I'm a big fan of his as well; but for VY to have that moment, that one real chance, seems really important.

shadowboxin'

04-27-2009, 10:50 PM

I don't see them getting rid of VY without giving him one last chance to prove himself.

Yvette

04-27-2009, 11:10 PM

Some of us at the draft day gathering said the HOF game would be a good place to see how VY is doing.

shadowboxin'

04-27-2009, 11:25 PM

I'm trying to convince myself to not put too much stock into the first couple preseason games, because it'll be the first time the team has played competitively (no, I don't consider training camp competitive football) in 8 months. From the 3rd game on we should get a good gauge of where he and everyone else are at.

titansikou

04-28-2009, 12:28 AM

Aside from the game against the hapless Rams, we looked like crap in the preseason last year. That said, Yvette and whoever else she was talking to (:D)is right though. Vince should be playing the preseason like his career depends on it... because it does!

pookha

04-28-2009, 03:32 AM

work your progressions, do your checkdowns,

uh,,
those two things are what any good nfl qb has to be able to do.
other wisse a nfl defense will just take them apart.

Titans and Turtles

04-28-2009, 05:52 AM

uh,,
those two things are what any good nfl qb has to be able to do.
other wisse a nfl defense will just take them apart.

OR...

you can fly out of the pocket, roll right, panic the containment linebacker, create chaos in the middle of the field, then throw accross your body on the run to your Tight End going against the grain in the middle.

My point is I never heard anyone talk about Michael Vick's "progressions", his "checkdowns", and certainly didn't hear entire off-seasons about the coaches working on Mike Vick's "Footwork." Remember, last offseason? "footwork, footwork, footwork." Working on VY's footwork. Every presser, every team meeting, every time Dinger or Fish was in front of a Mic, they talked about VY's footwork.

So, what was wrong with his footwork? I'll tell ya. He played all his life throwing on the run. He ran first, he was used to running, so bothering to set before he throws, like a true NFL passer does, was foreign to him. VY offense doesn't involve stopping, setting, and powering into a throw. But that's what the "footwork" problem was - he didn't know how to properly set and drive into a throw, because he never did it before. He played on the run. Now, the coaches wanted him to sit still and pass.

I've asked before, and I'll ask again: Ignoring his vast personal/criminal issues, would Mike Vick have been more or less successful as a player if the coaches spent countless hours trying to get him to stand still and work his progressions like "any good nfl qb"?

Fisher didn't want a running QB, it doesn't fit his system. But he was gonna be DAMNED before he changed his system for a QB he never stinking wanted. That met with Vince Young who always played VY-style, with coaches adapting to HIM. Rubber met the road, they tried to turn VY into a pocket passer, and presto explode-o - everyone looks like a fool.

wari0

04-28-2009, 08:28 AM

Id like to see VY be successful for the Titans but, considering how much of the cap he'll be using after next season I would be very suprised if they dont cut/trade him (even if he has some starts for the titans this season). The other bad news for Vince is that next years draft has a REALLY deep QB class. So I am having a hard time figuring out where I think he could end up as a starter... He will have to make some plays this year for the titans to get back on everyones radar so that when he does go to another team, he wont be the backup.

ZachLV27

04-28-2009, 08:35 AM

Michael Vick was a bad QB. I'm not sure I'd use him to defend your point.

titansikou

04-28-2009, 12:09 PM

Remember, last offseason? "footwork, footwork, footwork." Working on VY's footwork. Every presser, every team meeting, every time Dinger or Fish was in front of a Mic, they talked about VY's footwork.

So, what was wrong with his footwork? I'll tell ya. He played all his life throwing on the run. He ran first, he was used to running, so bothering to set before he throws, like a true NFL passer does, was foreign to him. VY offense doesn't involve stopping, setting, and powering into a throw.

Kind of a minor point, but that's not quite right. Young was throwing flat footed. He has a very strong arm and was able to basically throw the ball without putting much of his body into it. If you go back to even his college days, you'll notice that he's all arm (most of the time). It's not because he can run, it's to do with coaching and his willingness to learn. Not only that but footwork is the kind of thing QBs like Peyton Manning obsess about and continue to practice. My impression was that it was a big deal last year because no one had actually tried to work with him on it. It's a coachable skill whereas throwing motion is much harder to coach at this stage.

Anyway, I think we agree that Young needs to work on a lot of different skills. The question is will he put in the work and make a genuine effort?

Titanico

04-28-2009, 01:50 PM

There had been many cases of players at many positions that haven't lived up to their expectations:

Article 1 (http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-college-football-players-that-were-an-nfl-bust.php)

Article 2 (http://listverse.com/sports/the-top-10-worst-nfl-draft-picks/)

Just to give some examples.

Another authentic a huge dissapoiment was O.J. Simson in his NFL after-life. But that's another story.

Titans and Turtles

04-28-2009, 03:32 PM

Michael Vick was a bad QB. I'm not sure I'd use him to defend your point.

You miss my point entirely. I'm not saying Vick was good.

I'm asking this: Would he have been better if coaches had drilled into him a philosiphy of not running, staying in the pocket, working his progressions, and using his checkdowns?

I think if his coaches had tried to turn Vick into a regular pocket QB with a scramble "every now and then", it would have been disastrous.

However you thought of Vick as a QB, try to think of a Vick that ran less and tried to be more "pocket" based.

Zephyr

04-28-2009, 03:44 PM

Titans and Turtles

04-28-2009, 04:09 PM

So after drafting Pat White in the second round this weekend, having two solid RBs, Ted Ginn, and running the wildcat last season...you think the Fins could be taking look at the shotgun/run-option/VY Texas offense this season or in the near future?

It's clear their coach is comfortable taking risks and running a less conventional offense. Why not? Everyone says that an option spread would never work in the nfl - no one seriously tries. They used to say the forward pass would never work either. We'll see.

ZachLV27

04-28-2009, 04:25 PM

You miss my point entirely. I'm not saying Vick was good.

I'm asking this: Would he have been better if coaches had drilled into him a philosiphy of not running, staying in the pocket, working his progressions, and using his checkdowns?

I think if his coaches had tried to turn Vick into a regular pocket QB with a scramble "every now and then", it would have been disastrous.

However you thought of Vick as a QB, try to think of a Vick that ran less and tried to be more "pocket" based.

I think you're not remembering the past as accurately as you think. It wasn't until Vick's last year or two that his coaches gave up on him being a pocket passer. His first several years in the league his coaches tried to get him to stay in the pocket as much as possible because they knew that in this league you'll have a short lifespan if you try making your living outside the pocket as a QB.

Steve Young was a great QB during his time, but in today's game he wouldn't have lasted nearly as long. Part of that has to do with players being bigger and faster now and part of that has to do with his concussions. In the NFL today he would have been forced to sit much longer after each concussion and after a number of them they would have just told him to hang it up.

Even if a QB can be really good while doing most of his work outside the pocket, that's a big if and most NFL front offices don't believe they can, most teams aren't going to want to do it anyway. NFL QB's are guaranteed way too much money and that's too high of a risk for the owners.

TitansGiantsBears

04-29-2009, 01:35 AM

Here's my question. What if Vince rides the bench again this season? Do the Titans keep him around? He's a very expensive backup QB. Does anyone know his contract situation right off the bat? I'm too lazy to look it up. My gut feeling is that if Vince doesn't secure the starting job this year and play well this is his last season in Tennessee.

pookha

04-29-2009, 01:39 AM

he costs them a lot of money if they keep him past this season.
this season it actually will cost more to cut him.
but after this season he has a huge salary bump.

titansikou

04-29-2009, 03:04 AM

I don't understand NFL contracts at all so if this sounds totally stupid, you know why...

Since his stock is so low at the moment, if he's not back in the starter role this year, then maybe he and the Titans would be interested in reworking his contract heavier on incentives? That of course depends on what the coaches see off the field... it's certainly an weird situation. I don't know how he could get back on the field unless Collins is injured or we're playing in junk time. There isn't an open competition for the 1 slot, is there?

It is good that it hasn't boiled over into a 'controversy.' Let's hope it stays that way.

Hookem Horns

04-29-2009, 01:42 PM

I don't know how he could get back on the field unless Collins is injured or we're playing in junk time. There isn't an open competition for the 1 slot, is there?

It is good that it hasn't boiled over into a 'controversy.' Let's hope it stays that way.

Being a Giants fan also I know a little about Collins. He is very up and down. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he has a down season next year coming off a relatively good one. At least that has been his pattern in the past. Regardless there might be a chance VY will have a shot at showing something next season. However I am still of the opinion that Fisher doesn't want him there so who knows how much of a chance he gets even if Collins falters. Maybe that is why Fisher brought in Ramsey.

wari0

04-29-2009, 01:48 PM

titansikou

04-29-2009, 07:00 PM

the problem with that is they have no leverage to renegotiate. VY is guaranteed so much money why would he give up millions of dollars and risk being cut anyway? I doubt he is willing to do that just to have a chance of staying with the titans.

You may be right. What I was thinking was if the feeling was mutual, if the Titans want him to be the starter and he wants to be a starter ... anywhere... anyway, just a thought.. totally unrealistic by the sounds of it:D

don28

04-29-2009, 09:03 PM

Being a Giants fan also I know a little about Collins. He is very up and down. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he has a down season next year coming off a relatively good one. At least that has been his pattern in the past. Regardless there might be a chance VY will have a shot at showing something next season. However I am still of the opinion that Fisher doesn't want him there so who knows how much of a chance he gets even if Collins falters. Maybe that is why Fisher brought in Ramsey.

Yes, at Collins' age he could have a Brett Favre 2008 depreciation of skill this year. It wouldn't be a total surprise to me. Vince hopefully realizes this and is getting ready to turn over a new leaf.

Fisher may not want him there now, but if Vince does change and become closer to what he should be, I think Fisher would take that into consideration. Ramsey is there in case Vince doesn't turn over that new leaf, and is probably good insurance. He is familiar with Heimerdinger, and could probably call the right plays immediately. Executing them with precision will take time, but there wouldn't be a limitation in playcalling.

TTP77

04-29-2009, 10:26 PM

I debated on whether to even post this or give it a thread of its own, so I compromised by putting it here. :lolhit

An update for all the Titans fans wanting news on Vince Young’s offseason progression.

Titans Head Coach Jeff Fisher made it clear back in January what he expected to see out of Vince Young this offseason.

Fisher wanted Young to devote himself to the offseason workout program, be present and available to coaches and study more film.

According to Titans offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger, Young has done everything Fisher has asked of him. You has taken the first step towards getting back on the field for the Titans, but Heimerdinger said he’ll need to show steady improvement on the practice field in May to begin to earn back his spot under center.

''He's started to do what it will take. He's made every workout, which he wasn't here last year. That to me is the first step,'' Heimerdinger said. ''The next step is what he does in OTA's. I think he needs to prove to us that he knows where to go with the ball, make good decision, and then get back to if it's not there, pull it down and run. Just use the talent that he has.''

And what about his questionable attitude? Heimerdinger has noticed it’s changed and said Strength & Conditioning coach Steve Watterson has not had a complaint regarding his work ethic.

''He's been here four days a week every time they're supposed to be here,'' Heimerdinger said. ''He's been there when we're throwing on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Those steps are the first steps and then we'll see when we get to OTA's.''

And the question about whether Vince will ever become the Titans starter again – Fisher said yes.

''He’s doing everything he can to compete and earn his job back,'' Fisher said. ''As I’ve said time and time again, Vince will be eventually be our starting quarterback.''

posted by Jonathan Hutton on 4/29/2009 3:53:02 PM

http://titansradio.com//article.asp?id=1298657&SPID=29108

TitansGiantsBears

04-30-2009, 02:27 AM

Being a Giants fan also I know a little about Collins.

I knew I liked you! :thumbsup

Hookem Horns

04-30-2009, 03:54 AM

I knew I liked you! :thumbsup

I used to live in New York and became of fan when I was up there during the 80s and 90s. Since the Giants are NFC and the Oilers (now Texans) are AFC I had no problem rooting for both. Of course the Oilers (now Texans) were always my #1 team since my roots are in Texas. Though I admit I haven't missed a Giants game in 3 seasons.

So I assume you are a Bears fan also?

TitansGiantsBears

05-01-2009, 12:02 AM

I used to live in New York and became of fan when I was up there during the 80s and 90s. Since the Giants are NFC and the Oilers (now Texans) are AFC I had no problem rooting for both. Of course the Oilers (now Texans) were always my #1 team since my roots are in Texas. Though I admit I haven't missed a Giants game in 3 seasons.

So I assume you are a Bears fan also?

Not really. I was just rooting for them because a player I know played for them a few years back. However, people here know me under the TGB name so I brought it over from the old board.

titansikou

05-01-2009, 12:37 PM

the Oilers (now Texans)

What's wrong with this picture?

Titanico

05-01-2009, 02:24 PM

. Since the Giants are NFC and the Oilers (now Texans) are AFC I had no problem rooting for both. Of course the Oilers (now Texans)

Note: The Texans are not the Oilers evolutioned.

TitansGiantsBears

05-01-2009, 05:38 PM

What's wrong with this picture?

Nothing, if taken in its proper context. The poster isn't saying that the Oilers became the Texans. He or she is saying his/her favorite team used to be the Oilers and now is the Texans because his/her roots are in Texas.

Titanico

05-01-2009, 06:13 PM

Nothing, if taken in its proper context. The poster isn't saying that the Oilers became the Texans. He or she is saying his/her favorite team used to be the Oilers and now is the Texans because his/her roots are in Texas.

:D

Say what?

Rolltide14TOMB

05-01-2009, 07:40 PM

TitansGiantsBears i have been meaning to ask you...how in the world does one become a fan of chicago, New York, and Tennessee? Thats like me being TideIrishHoosiers

Orca

05-01-2009, 08:16 PM

TGB is obviously cosmopolitan, like Orca...

:lol

Old Oilers Fan

05-02-2009, 06:12 AM

TGB is obviously cosmopolitan, like Orca...

:lol

Then you two should take a laxative. :D

Jones31

05-02-2009, 11:43 AM

:D

Say what?

Means he was an Oilers fan.....is now a Texans fan.

Orca

05-02-2009, 01:44 PM

Then you two should take a laxative. :D

This is not the first time that Orca has been told he is full of it!

:lol

Titanico

05-02-2009, 01:47 PM

Means he was an Oilers fan.....is now a Texans fan.

:thumbsup

My case it's a similar one. Only that I choose to become a Titans fan.

TitansGiantsBears

05-02-2009, 07:08 PM

TitansGiantsBears i have been meaning to ask you...how in the world does one become a fan of chicago, New York, and Tennessee? Thats like me being TideIrishHoosiers

Actually, I'm a fan of only two teams... The Giants whom I've followed since before their first Super Bowl win. They will always be my first love in the NFL but the Titans aren't far behind. Living here in the Nashville area, it's much easier to follow the Titans than the Giants.

I moved to Tennessee during the time the city was voting on whether or not to allow an NFL team to come here. It's hard to go to rallies, talk to friends and neighbors about the pros of having a team, etc, and not be a fan. I didn't even realize I'd become a fan until the year the team played at Vandy. I went to a few games that year, but it was at the Jets game that I stood up and cheered when a play was made behind the line. I realized, "Oh crap! I've become a fan of this team!" I actually targeted the Jets game just to see Parcells and to see Jumbo Elliott play.

The Bears part of it was in support of a player that I know from back home that used to play for them but no longer does. I toyed with the idea of dropping the Bears altogether on this new board but people here know me as TGB so I went with it.