+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3
FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 55

Thread: Dillusional Longhorn/VY Fan

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    DFW/Houston
    Posts
    680
    Rep Power
    106

    Default

    I'm trying to convince myself to not put too much stock into the first couple preseason games, because it'll be the first time the team has played competitively (no, I don't consider training camp competitive football) in 8 months. From the 3rd game on we should get a good gauge of where he and everyone else are at.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Iowa City, Iowa
    Posts
    1,343
    Rep Power
    524

    Default

    Aside from the game against the hapless Rams, we looked like crap in the preseason last year. That said, Yvette and whoever else she was talking to ()is right though. Vince should be playing the preseason like his career depends on it... because it does!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    hanging out at Mr Dowd's house
    Posts
    1,568
    Rep Power
    3087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Titans and Turtles View Post
    work your progressions, do your checkdowns,
    uh,,
    those two things are what any good nfl qb has to be able to do.
    other wisse a nfl defense will just take them apart.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    736
    Rep Power
    773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pookha View Post
    uh,,
    those two things are what any good nfl qb has to be able to do.
    other wisse a nfl defense will just take them apart.
    OR...

    you can fly out of the pocket, roll right, panic the containment linebacker, create chaos in the middle of the field, then throw accross your body on the run to your Tight End going against the grain in the middle.

    My point is I never heard anyone talk about Michael Vick's "progressions", his "checkdowns", and certainly didn't hear entire off-seasons about the coaches working on Mike Vick's "Footwork." Remember, last offseason? "footwork, footwork, footwork." Working on VY's footwork. Every presser, every team meeting, every time Dinger or Fish was in front of a Mic, they talked about VY's footwork.

    So, what was wrong with his footwork? I'll tell ya. He played all his life throwing on the run. He ran first, he was used to running, so bothering to set before he throws, like a true NFL passer does, was foreign to him. VY offense doesn't involve stopping, setting, and powering into a throw. But that's what the "footwork" problem was - he didn't know how to properly set and drive into a throw, because he never did it before. He played on the run. Now, the coaches wanted him to sit still and pass.

    I've asked before, and I'll ask again: Ignoring his vast personal/criminal issues, would Mike Vick have been more or less successful as a player if the coaches spent countless hours trying to get him to stand still and work his progressions like "any good nfl qb"?

    Fisher didn't want a running QB, it doesn't fit his system. But he was gonna be DAMNED before he changed his system for a QB he never stinking wanted. That met with Vince Young who always played VY-style, with coaches adapting to HIM. Rubber met the road, they tried to turn VY into a pocket passer, and presto explode-o - everyone looks like a fool.
    “Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up.”

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    526
    Rep Power
    47

    Default

    Id like to see VY be successful for the Titans but, considering how much of the cap he'll be using after next season I would be very suprised if they dont cut/trade him (even if he has some starts for the titans this season). The other bad news for Vince is that next years draft has a REALLY deep QB class. So I am having a hard time figuring out where I think he could end up as a starter... He will have to make some plays this year for the titans to get back on everyones radar so that when he does go to another team, he wont be the backup.
    Last edited by wari0; 04-28-2009 at 07:35 AM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In the snow
    Posts
    3,841
    Rep Power
    20065

    Default

    Michael Vick was a bad QB. I'm not sure I'd use him to defend your point.

  7. The following user likes this post:

    Jones31 (04-28-2009)

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Iowa City, Iowa
    Posts
    1,343
    Rep Power
    524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Titans and Turtles View Post
    Remember, last offseason? "footwork, footwork, footwork." Working on VY's footwork. Every presser, every team meeting, every time Dinger or Fish was in front of a Mic, they talked about VY's footwork.

    So, what was wrong with his footwork? I'll tell ya. He played all his life throwing on the run. He ran first, he was used to running, so bothering to set before he throws, like a true NFL passer does, was foreign to him. VY offense doesn't involve stopping, setting, and powering into a throw.
    Kind of a minor point, but that's not quite right. Young was throwing flat footed. He has a very strong arm and was able to basically throw the ball without putting much of his body into it. If you go back to even his college days, you'll notice that he's all arm (most of the time). It's not because he can run, it's to do with coaching and his willingness to learn. Not only that but footwork is the kind of thing QBs like Peyton Manning obsess about and continue to practice. My impression was that it was a big deal last year because no one had actually tried to work with him on it. It's a coachable skill whereas throwing motion is much harder to coach at this stage.

    Anyway, I think we agree that Young needs to work on a lot of different skills. The question is will he put in the work and make a genuine effort?

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The same city as always...
    Posts
    5,838
    Rep Power
    25712

    Default

    There had been many cases of players at many positions that haven't lived up to their expectations:

    Article 1

    Article 2

    Just to give some examples.

    Another authentic a huge dissapoiment was O.J. Simson in his NFL after-life. But that's another story.
    Tell me where do I belong, In a sick society (Ozzy's "You're No Different" lyrics excerpt

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    736
    Rep Power
    773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZachLV27 View Post
    Michael Vick was a bad QB. I'm not sure I'd use him to defend your point.
    You miss my point entirely. I'm not saying Vick was good.

    I'm asking this: Would he have been better if coaches had drilled into him a philosiphy of not running, staying in the pocket, working his progressions, and using his checkdowns?

    I think if his coaches had tried to turn Vick into a regular pocket QB with a scramble "every now and then", it would have been disastrous.

    However you thought of Vick as a QB, try to think of a Vick that ran less and tried to be more "pocket" based.
    “Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up.”

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Franklin
    Posts
    241
    Rep Power
    35

    Default

    So after drafting Pat White in the second round this weekend, having two solid RBs, Ted Ginn, and running the wildcat last season...you think the Fins could be taking look at the shotgun/run-option/VY Texas offense this season or in the near future?

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    736
    Rep Power
    773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    So after drafting Pat White in the second round this weekend, having two solid RBs, Ted Ginn, and running the wildcat last season...you think the Fins could be taking look at the shotgun/run-option/VY Texas offense this season or in the near future?
    It's clear their coach is comfortable taking risks and running a less conventional offense. Why not? Everyone says that an option spread would never work in the nfl - no one seriously tries. They used to say the forward pass would never work either. We'll see.
    “Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up.”

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In the snow
    Posts
    3,841
    Rep Power
    20065

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Titans and Turtles View Post
    You miss my point entirely. I'm not saying Vick was good.

    I'm asking this: Would he have been better if coaches had drilled into him a philosiphy of not running, staying in the pocket, working his progressions, and using his checkdowns?

    I think if his coaches had tried to turn Vick into a regular pocket QB with a scramble "every now and then", it would have been disastrous.

    However you thought of Vick as a QB, try to think of a Vick that ran less and tried to be more "pocket" based.
    I think you're not remembering the past as accurately as you think. It wasn't until Vick's last year or two that his coaches gave up on him being a pocket passer. His first several years in the league his coaches tried to get him to stay in the pocket as much as possible because they knew that in this league you'll have a short lifespan if you try making your living outside the pocket as a QB.

    Steve Young was a great QB during his time, but in today's game he wouldn't have lasted nearly as long. Part of that has to do with players being bigger and faster now and part of that has to do with his concussions. In the NFL today he would have been forced to sit much longer after each concussion and after a number of them they would have just told him to hang it up.

    Even if a QB can be really good while doing most of his work outside the pocket, that's a big if and most NFL front offices don't believe they can, most teams aren't going to want to do it anyway. NFL QB's are guaranteed way too much money and that's too high of a risk for the owners.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,313
    Rep Power
    3122

    Default

    Here's my question. What if Vince rides the bench again this season? Do the Titans keep him around? He's a very expensive backup QB. Does anyone know his contract situation right off the bat? I'm too lazy to look it up. My gut feeling is that if Vince doesn't secure the starting job this year and play well this is his last season in Tennessee.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    hanging out at Mr Dowd's house
    Posts
    1,568
    Rep Power
    3087

    Default

    he costs them a lot of money if they keep him past this season.
    this season it actually will cost more to cut him.
    but after this season he has a huge salary bump.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Iowa City, Iowa
    Posts
    1,343
    Rep Power
    524

    Default

    I don't understand NFL contracts at all so if this sounds totally stupid, you know why...

    Since his stock is so low at the moment, if he's not back in the starter role this year, then maybe he and the Titans would be interested in reworking his contract heavier on incentives? That of course depends on what the coaches see off the field... it's certainly an weird situation. I don't know how he could get back on the field unless Collins is injured or we're playing in junk time. There isn't an open competition for the 1 slot, is there?

    It is good that it hasn't boiled over into a 'controversy.' Let's hope it stays that way.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    1256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by titansikou View Post
    I don't know how he could get back on the field unless Collins is injured or we're playing in junk time. There isn't an open competition for the 1 slot, is there?

    It is good that it hasn't boiled over into a 'controversy.' Let's hope it stays that way.
    Being a Giants fan also I know a little about Collins. He is very up and down. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he has a down season next year coming off a relatively good one. At least that has been his pattern in the past. Regardless there might be a chance VY will have a shot at showing something next season. However I am still of the opinion that Fisher doesn't want him there so who knows how much of a chance he gets even if Collins falters. Maybe that is why Fisher brought in Ramsey.

  18. The following user likes this post:

    TitansGiantsBears (04-30-2009)

  19. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    526
    Rep Power
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by titansikou View Post
    I don't understand NFL contracts at all so if this sounds totally stupid, you know why...

    Since his stock is so low at the moment, if he's not back in the starter role this year, then maybe he and the Titans would be interested in reworking his contract heavier on incentives? That of course depends on what the coaches see off the field... it's certainly an weird situation. I don't know how he could get back on the field unless Collins is injured or we're playing in junk time. There isn't an open competition for the 1 slot, is there?

    It is good that it hasn't boiled over into a 'controversy.' Let's hope it stays that way.
    the problem with that is they have no leverage to renegotiate. VY is guaranteed so much money why would he give up millions of dollars and risk being cut anyway? I doubt he is willing to do that just to have a chance of staying with the titans.

  20. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Iowa City, Iowa
    Posts
    1,343
    Rep Power
    524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wari0 View Post
    the problem with that is they have no leverage to renegotiate. VY is guaranteed so much money why would he give up millions of dollars and risk being cut anyway? I doubt he is willing to do that just to have a chance of staying with the titans.
    You may be right. What I was thinking was if the feeling was mutual, if the Titans want him to be the starter and he wants to be a starter ... anywhere... anyway, just a thought.. totally unrealistic by the sounds of it

  21. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    1,779
    Rep Power
    7456

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
    Being a Giants fan also I know a little about Collins. He is very up and down. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he has a down season next year coming off a relatively good one. At least that has been his pattern in the past. Regardless there might be a chance VY will have a shot at showing something next season. However I am still of the opinion that Fisher doesn't want him there so who knows how much of a chance he gets even if Collins falters. Maybe that is why Fisher brought in Ramsey.
    Yes, at Collins' age he could have a Brett Favre 2008 depreciation of skill this year. It wouldn't be a total surprise to me. Vince hopefully realizes this and is getting ready to turn over a new leaf.

    Fisher may not want him there now, but if Vince does change and become closer to what he should be, I think Fisher would take that into consideration. Ramsey is there in case Vince doesn't turn over that new leaf, and is probably good insurance. He is familiar with Heimerdinger, and could probably call the right plays immediately. Executing them with precision will take time, but there wouldn't be a limitation in playcalling.

  22. 2 Users Liked This Post

    315 (04-29-2009), barnybyrd (04-29-2009)

  23. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Universal Consciousness
    Posts
    9,771
    Rep Power
    13629

    Default Update On VY's Offseason Progression

    I debated on whether to even post this or give it a thread of its own, so I compromised by putting it here.

    An update for all the Titans fans wanting news on Vince Young’s offseason progression.

    Titans Head Coach Jeff Fisher made it clear back in January what he expected to see out of Vince Young this offseason.

    Fisher wanted Young to devote himself to the offseason workout program, be present and available to coaches and study more film.

    According to Titans offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger, Young has done everything Fisher has asked of him. You has taken the first step towards getting back on the field for the Titans, but Heimerdinger said he’ll need to show steady improvement on the practice field in May to begin to earn back his spot under center.

    ''He's started to do what it will take. He's made every workout, which he wasn't here last year. That to me is the first step,'' Heimerdinger said. ''The next step is what he does in OTA's. I think he needs to prove to us that he knows where to go with the ball, make good decision, and then get back to if it's not there, pull it down and run. Just use the talent that he has.''

    And what about his questionable attitude? Heimerdinger has noticed it’s changed and said Strength & Conditioning coach Steve Watterson has not had a complaint regarding his work ethic.

    ''He's been here four days a week every time they're supposed to be here,'' Heimerdinger said. ''He's been there when we're throwing on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Those steps are the first steps and then we'll see when we get to OTA's.''

    And the question about whether Vince will ever become the Titans starter again – Fisher said yes.

    ''He’s doing everything he can to compete and earn his job back,'' Fisher said. ''As I’ve said time and time again, Vince will be eventually be our starting quarterback.''

    posted by Jonathan Hutton on 4/29/2009 3:53:02 PM
    http://titansradio.com//article.asp?...657&SPID=29108

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts